You Can 'BANK' On It!

[Pandamin]

mrcalhou wrote:

I had thought about something similar to that, but I'm not a huge fan of the idea of limited resources in an MMO, because new players could be (and should be) joining. And they should never feel like they missed out on anything. Or they can't catch up. Or they are at a disadvantage.

Right, but thats where the green mist comes in.
New lands will emerge as the playerbase grows larger.

Its not something that would be upsetting to the new player.
Since a) new lands will open up naturally and b) it follows the same rules as any other resource.

What I suggested has no impact on rich or poor.
No more then any other system. Whatever will become the accepted currency, rich and poor will always do the dance.
Its also more accurate to think in terms of have's and have not's.

Unless you abolish owned property, be that private or state/tribe.

You can call it switching hands sure.
But what it is, is emulating what we used to have in the real world.

Resources are already limited, you can already exhaust a patch of land from its resources.

But I'm not a developer, these are just my ideas on "currency".
This being a sandbox I strongly feel currency should be limited and player generated. If it has no value then I don't see why we would have to introduce it at all.

And value comes from supply/demand.
If precious metals are used in construction (wich they are in real life) then you can perfectly "burn" gold.

But each to his own ideas of course.

[joexxxz]

Pandamin wrote:

mrcalhou wrote:

Pandamin. Personally, I like the concept of a consumable currency. In most games currency is continually introduced, and removed, by the NPC's but this game doesn't have any NPCs. If currency is only ever introduced into the game and not removed then there will be inflation. But I don't see how we could get currency in this game without NPCs.

Well thats the thing.
I was trying to think in non game terms because Xsyon already touches on "realism" in a lot of areas. Go along with me for a sec. :laugh:

If I get it right....
The area of Xsyon is populated by resources that can run out right now? If so, why not introduce silver and gold as a collectable currency?

Just like in the real world, gold would not be created from nothing. There would only be so much wealth in the world as is circulated and dug up out of the mines. (In the old gold standard economy, not aplicable these days)

Am I explaining this well enough?
Currency would not be introduced out of thin air.
It would be harvested from a limited source. That would add actual value to the ingame currency.

Since those resources would be gold and/or silver I can see many ways to compromise between both our ideas on "currency".
Gold and silver could be forged into currency or an item that can degrade. Creating another decision for the player.

The gold could even be harvested from rivers with washboards, adding another activity.
You don't need npc's in the entire process.

Great idea. One thing thou, i want to make a market house so i can sell goodies there. Would be nice if my market could be run by NPC.

[joexxxz]

mrcalhou wrote:

I had thought about something similar to that, but I'm not a huge fan of the idea of limited resources in an MMO, because new players could be (and should be) joining. And they should never feel like they missed out on anything. Or they can't catch up. Or they are at a disadvantage.

Your idea for gold and silver is basically just becomes switching hands after a while and I think that'd eventually lead to the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer with regards to the currency and it will devolve into a trade system after awhile. And I'm not sure if it would hurt the game economy in the process. I don't think it would as long as resources aren't limited but rather have a high decay rate.

Please stop introducing WOW here. If you think that u dont want to miss anything out, play WOW WOW. O WOW :blink:

[mrcalhou]

joexxxz wrote:

mrcalhou wrote:

I had thought about something similar to that, but I'm not a huge fan of the idea of limited resources in an MMO, because new players could be (and should be) joining. And they should never feel like they missed out on anything. Or they can't catch up. Or they are at a disadvantage.

Your idea for gold and silver is basically just becomes switching hands after a while and I think that'd eventually lead to the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer with regards to the currency and it will devolve into a trade system after awhile. And I'm not sure if it would hurt the game economy in the process. I don't think it would as long as resources aren't limited but rather have a high decay rate.

Please stop introducing WOW here. If you think that u dont want to miss anything out, play WOW WOW. O WOW :blink:

...Get off your fucking high horse. I never even played WoW.

[Kitsume]

One of the problems with an open currency system, where money is made or found, is inflation. As more people accumulate what is virtually an unlimited scavenged source of money prices for items will only go up. Many MMOGs fail at balancing the distribution of their currencies.

To prevent this there needs to be a balance in the introduction of money with the removal of the money. Consumable items would be better used as currency than the coins, dollars or bottle caps we are currently scavenging.

Buttons, nails, fish or bolts would make for a sounder currency in Xsyon since these items are consumed in crafting or as food. Along with that, we could use barter, where certain rare scavenged or hunted items are used in payment for good equipment. Metal Medallions, Belt buckles, Axe heads, etc are examples of those rare items.

[Xx1327]

being able to mint money would be a good way of doing things, that and a barter system. make coins out of different materials, then stamp a logo of whatever on it. when your tribe does this they make a "special design" or a plate of the coin that you'll need if you want to make that currency, along with the required materials of course. this way you could get many tribes to agree on a chosen currency, if they wanted to, get a couple copies of the plates and give them to the other tribes. make a limit on the amount of plates of a specific currency you store in your mint at a time, making the plates more valuable, and not allow the plates be stored in banks or whatever. but just in case let the originals,the first tribe made, be stored anywhere.

if a tribe gets carried away with making coins you could go and destroy their mint and they lose their plates and thus cant over produce the currency anymore.


i'm just making this up as i go, but seems like a sound idea to me.

[mrcalhou]

Kitsume wrote:

One of the problems with an open currency system, where money is made or found, is inflation.

Yeah, I mentioned that on the first page.

As more people accumulate what is virtually an unlimited scavenged source of money prices for items will only go up. Many MMOGs fail at balancing the distribution of their currencies.

To prevent this there needs to be a balance in the introduction of money with the removal of the money. Consumable items would be better used as currency than the coins, dollars or bottle caps we are currently scavenging.

Buttons, nails, fish or bolts would make for a sounder currency in Xsyon since these items are consumed in crafting or as food. Along with that, we could use barter, where certain rare scavenged or hunted items are used in payment for good equipment. Metal Medallions, Belt buckles, Axe heads, etc are examples of those rare items.

I have yet to get around to playing Metro 2033, but I think that games uses ammo as currency. That idea appeals to me for the reasons you have mentioned.

To go along with what you said, and what I said in the past, it would be a really good idea if the Devs would implement a system that makes the game have a high turn over rate of equipment: Equipment losing durability over time and getting weaker in the process, equipment sometimes breaking when being killed. All in the name of promoting the economy instead of items just switching hands or collecting virtual dust in someone's storage.

But, uhh... anyway, I think the playerbase would eventually settle on some standards with regards to the economy. Like buttons, nails, bolts, wood, any ores (I really hope that eventually ore processing and refining will make it into the game), and so on would become the currency with certain exchange rates. Basically any item that is lightweight and/or easily amassable.

[mrcalhou]

Xx1327 wrote:

being able to mint money would be a good way of doing things, that and a barter system. make coins out of different materials, then stamp a logo of whatever on it. when your tribe does this they make a "special design" or a plate of the coin that you'll need if you want to make that currency, along with the required materials of course. this way you could get many tribes to agree on a chosen currency, if they wanted to, get a couple copies of the plates and give them to the other tribes. make a limit on the amount of plates of a specific currency you store in your mint at a time, making the plates more valuable, and not allow the plates be stored in banks or whatever. but just in case let the originals,the first tribe made, be stored anywhere.

if a tribe gets carried away with making coins you could go and destroy their mint and they lose their plates and thus cant over produce the currency anymore.


i'm just making this up as i go, but seems like a sound idea to me.

I was going to talk about my ideas regarding each tribe having what I'd call a trading post where you could trade stuff to the tribe and then get a credit from them (their own currency) that you can use to buy stuff only from them or that would have a value with other tribes, but when I was thinking about it, I started thinking that over time xsyon, the game, will grow and more tribes will come in, some will leave, etcetera and this might not be such a good idea.

Thinking about it some more though, and after reading what you wrote, I'm not sure it'd be so bad after all. There'd certainly be a risk with keeping outstanding credit with a faction (Like having a gift card when Circuit City closed up), but it might be a nifty idea since player-to-player trading would almost definitly always be availble.

[Darenkel]

The only thing I see wrong with an Item to Item trade system is, how would you effectively market, say, 100 buttons? Would you say that someone must give you a log or a Lucky Horseshoe, for them? What if they don't have either of those things, but something of a comparable value, that might also be quite useful to you? Unless you are there, doing the transaction, that person will be required to just move on to the next guy or town, to get what he needs, thus making it so he must travel even farther to find someone that can trade him those 100 buttons for something he has with him...

At least, each tribe should have their own declared currency or item-value rates.

In a merchant situation, if that merchant is with a tribe, 'favors' are exchanged, for items. Favors could be kept track of by means of an in-game tally, for that entire tribe, in relation to who bought or sold what, to or from the tribe. Basically, if you sold something to someone who was part of a certain tribe, then you would have a running credit with that entire tribe (but only if they declare a non-currency), unless a form of tribal currency is involved.

However, a really easy way to solve the whole global currency issue, would be to create a global 'soft cap' on the salvaging of the Dollar/Quarter/Penny, that way, there will never be an exponentially increasing amount. The soft cap could be around... 1mil dollars worth in scavenged currency, with a global scavenging slowdown on the currency beginning around 500 thousand dollars. (Basically making it so that after a certain point, all of the money in the entire map, has been more or less found by people.) Obviously, the new players would have to do something for a tribe that has money, to really get any, after a certain point, but that can be a very good thing. Some tribes would be able to grow more effectively if new players needed a tribe as much as the tribe needed them, for tasks and such, so the new player would have something 'purposeful' to do, without feeling like he wasn't making some sort of an impact on the game.

[Pandamin]

joexxxz wrote:

Great idea. One thing thou, i want to make a market house so i can sell goodies there. Would be nice if my market could be run by NPC.

Thanks, but no can do.

Its either fully player generated or nothing. :silly:

But seriously, why would we introduce npc's for that?
Seems counter productive.