Already seeing people macroing..

[Derek]

Redesigning the skill gain system to not be based off repetitive tasks could be an interesting idea, but how would one go around doing it? I'd like to expand on this, because this could be the beginning of a great idea.

Well, one way of doing it is by requiring players to search the world for resources off of NPC kills and/or resource nodes.

For crafting skills, once you have gained enough of the material you need to raise the desired craft skill, you set that skill to raise and submit the required X amount of resources. Then that skill will raise after X amount of time whether you are online or offline.

For combat skills, they could be raised two ways. One method would be by fighting NPC's (not real players because this is exploitable by use of macros). In addition to this, currency gained from fighting NPC's could then be used to pay a combat trainer. You select a combat skill to raise, submit X amount of currency, and that skill will raise after X amount of time whether you are online or offline.

This system is a hybrid of Eve style offline skill system but also rewards players that play the game more often because they will have more resources to spend on skill ups. It is not macro prone because you are fighting NPC's. It promotes players to be out exploring the world and fighting over resource nodes/valuable mobs (as opposed to macroing off of each other inside their protected tribe lands).

[Tybalt]

There are lots of ways to make botting harder. Like Forseer suggested, you could have to use bait to fish. As for Hiding, make skillgain require movement while in hiding and make moving while in Hide reduce stamina at a High rate that is lowered as you gain more skill in Hiding. I know it will not stop macros altogether but it will reduce the effectiveness of macroing. As for crafting, there is not much point in trying to macro that. The tedious acts of adding tools each time you craft and the craft window reset upon learning a new pattern is already enough to make a macro inefficient. Would take longer to write the script than it would to just do it. There is no easy way to stop botting other than a full overhaul of the crafting and skill system. But if you can make Botting less efficient and desirable it will become less of an issue.

[Derek]

There are lots of ways to make botting harder. Like Forseer suggested, you could have to use bait to fish. As for Hiding, make skillgain require movement while in hiding and make moving while in Hide reduce stamina at a High rate that is lowered as you gain more skill in Hiding. I know it will not stop macros altogether but it will reduce the effectiveness of macroing. As for crafting, there is not much point in trying to macro that. The tedious acts of adding tools each time you craft and the craft window reset upon learning a new pattern is already enough to make a macro inefficient. Would take longer to write the script than it would to just do it. There is no easy way to stop botting other than a full overhaul of the crafting and skill system. But if you can make Botting less efficient and desirable it will become less of an issue.

You seriously underestimate what macros can do. It is very possible and relatively simple to write a script that uses pixel detection to find certain objects and drag/drop them into slots.

If there is significant benefit from writing one of these scripts, you better believe players will create and use them.

[trenixdecease]

You said there might be a way to do it without one click. That doesn't mean the action that doesn't involve one click isn't going to be repetitive. So no, not really. If you meant that with your post, I'm not sure.

For example, obtaining bait and watching over a bobber would be a more complex system that will remove macroing for free food, which is a huge issue.

It seems like you jolly back and forth with what your opinion is. First you think realism is a good thing, then you think it's a bad thing. It's so on and so-forth with just about everything. You repeatedly contradict yourself. If you want people to get a specific message from your post, you could write your posts to translate your idea a little bit better.

As for starvation, you need to realize that this is after all a game. Keeping that in mind, realism should not be affecting my overall gameplay.

I understand that realism isn't the best way to go, but without any of it, the game will become way off topic.

Looks like I did stay on my point. Don't know what else I went back and forth on. But I'm sure you'd gladly make up something. Sorry that I believe in realism in a way that it shouldn't effect the lore and gameplay to the point that this game would become a disgrace. Minigames in crafts, exactly how does that even make sense?

I'm not going to keep going on and on what's wrong with your posts, I've really given up on that. If you don't know why people are getting pissed of with some of the things you say by now, there isn't much I can do to help realize that. How about we focus on the topic now instead of further derailing what was, and could still be, a good thread.

How bout you seriously step away from the forums. You're obviously just whining now, you got upset all because I disagreed with you and you took it personally. We've already went over that, just like most people do now-a-days. Seems like everyone I agree with thinks I'm like their best friend, and everyone I disagree with is my enemy.

I just thought I'd mention that you liked someone else's suggestions when mine was almost exactly like it, if not, was my suggestion. Just wanted to prove that you're bias, you hold grudges, and you need to grow up because you're taking it out on me since I didn't agree with you.

[Tybalt]

I have never underestimated what "Macros" can do. I have written scripts that would play my character for an entire 20 hour period. That is not the point. The point being that if you make the task of writing a script take longer and become more of a hastle then if they were to just do it themselves. You reduce the desire to use it. Personaly I only have had the desire to bot out tedious tasks such as Wurm Online's Mining. Other Scripts I have written for full character control for hours of constructive grinding, were only to see how far I could take it. I would never actually use it to level up. That defeats the point of me paying and playing a game. What is the point of paying to play a game if all you do is add an NPC? =P

We just need to make sure there is no way to gain an advantage in PvP from the use of Macros. Like Hiding... this is one we need to Focus on. Fishing, who cares?

Also, when posting comments in the Forums, try not to assume that everyone is retarded. It is better to assume there is always someone more intelligent than yourself reading your post.

[Hyip]

I have never underestimated what "Macros" can do. I have written scripts that would play my character for an entire 20 hour period. That is not the point. The point being that if you make the task of writing a script take longer and become more of a hastle then if they were to just do it themselves. You reduce the desire to use it. Personaly I only have had the desire to bot out tedious tasks such as Wurm Online's Mining. Other Scripts I have written for full character control for hours of constructive grinding, were only to see how far I could take it. I would never actually use it to level up. That defeats the point of me paying and playing a game. What is the point of paying to play a game if all you do is add an NPC? =P

We just need to make sure there is no way to gain an advantage in PvP from the use of Macros. Like Hiding... this is one we need to Focus on. Fishing, who cares?

Also, when posting comments in the Forums, try not to assume that everyone is retarded. It is better to assume there is always someone more intelligent than yourself reading your post.

They should be all focused on because you can gain lvls and then put your skill points into combat. I thought the same thing that you just said for a bit until someone reminded me of that. And about the scripts taking longer. They do it while afk anyways. So its not wasting their time.

[Derek]

Also, when posting comments in the Forums, try not to assume that everyone is retarded. It is better to assume there is always someone more intelligent than yourself reading your post.

If this is directed to me, no offense meant. I wasn't trying to sound condescending.

My point is:
If we do have skills where macroing can be used to create an advantage, in PvP or otherwise, then players will create as complicated a macro as they need to gain that advantage.

I don't see how writing a complicated macro would ever take more time than typical MMO's require for a full skill grind.

(edit: I'm not talking about full blown bots that can do almost anything a player can do, which is much more difficult to code in an fps-style mmo that offers no built-in scripting tools.)

[Darenkel]

If this is directed to me, no offense meant. I wasn't trying to sound condescending.

I don't think you were the only one that this comment was directed at... Trenix does that a lot, as well.

[Tybalt]

I don't think you were the only one that this comment was directed at... Trenix does that a lot, as well.

this one, =)

[trenixdecease]

I don't think you were the only one that this comment was directed at... Trenix does that a lot, as well.

I wasn't targeting anyone's intelligence, you either agree with me or don't. I'm not here to agree with everyone's opinions. Just because I disagree with someone, that doesn't necessarily mean that I think they're stupid. Maybe that's why people overreact on the forums. I really wish we could send feedback ingame so I wouldn't have do deal with drama.

Seriously, you keep going on. Not me. Do I need to quote myself to show you each time that I said drop that topic of conversation?

You were the one that got us back into a conversation.