Brickmaking

[Lead_poisoning]

Currently, a player must click four times to make a single brick: one right click each for the hammer, chisel, and stone, and then a left click on the 'Craft' button.

If you remember that you need 80 bricks for a single wall section, this means that crafting enough bricks for a single wall section requires 320 clicks. This strikes me as 1) unnecessarily tedious, and 2) likely to inflict carpal tunnel syndrome on masons.

The simplest fix I can think of is to make the recipe call for 10 units of stone and produce 10 bricks, reducing the 320 clicks for one wall section to a much more reasonable 32.

Ideally, you wouldn't need to click the tools again between each crafting, but that's a wider issue than what I'm trying to address here.

[trenixdecease]

I disagree, you're making it way too easy. You should be forced to make every individual brick, however there should be some changes made.

I've created my own opinion about the crafting system, not only just bricks... http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...5361#post35361

[Xx1327]

take out all the clicks needed for making multiple bricks and just make it to where you need all the resources for said amount of bricks and you click craft and theres a timer for each brick. problem solved

[mrcalhou]

I disagree, you're making it way too easy.

Tedious is not the same as hard. If you want it to be harder then they should make it so that you actually have to do something during the crafting process. If all you are doing is clicking to set it up, that's not difficult at all. It's just repetitive, tedious, and requires no "skill" what-so-ever.

[trenixdecease]

Tedious is not the same as hard. If you want it to be harder then they should make it so that you actually have to do something during the crafting process. If all you are doing is clicking to set it up, that's not difficult at all. It's just repetitive, tedious, and requires no "skill" what-so-ever.

I'm not asking for it to be hard by leaving the unnecessary clicks. If you read my suggestion you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. With the original poster's suggestion there are two problems. First one being, creating multiple bricks at one time will make individual bricks less valuable. This will also make creating bricks easier as in quicker, which is why its value will go down. Second, if you increase the timer for ten bricks being created at one time, now we will be just wasting unnecessary time, especially if you only require two more bricks rather than ten. Why should someone make ten bricks when he only needs two more? The problem is not the amount of bricks we are allowed to create, but instead the reselecting of tools, the re-adding of materials, and the ability to repeat the crafting process.

[Lead_poisoning]

I'm not asking for it to be hard by leaving the unnecessary clicks. If you read my suggestion you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. With the original poster's suggestion there are two problems. First one being, creating multiple bricks at one time will make individual bricks less valuable. This will also make creating bricks easier as in quicker, which is why its value will go down. Second, if you increase the timer for ten bricks being created at one time, now we will be just wasting unnecessary time, especially if you only require two more bricks rather than ten. Why should someone make ten bricks when he only needs two more? The problem is not the amount of bricks we are allowed to create, but instead the reselecting of tools, the re-adding of materials, and the ability to repeat the crafting process.

1) I'm not sure what you mean by "less valuable." Bricks are virtually untradeable due to their extreme weight and the massive quantities needed. Also, you already said we would increase the timer for crafting 10 bricks instead of one, so it would only be quicker by the amount of time you spend clicking your tools and stone for each crafting, which isn't much. It would also consume the same amount of materials. The actual change in end-product value would be minimal, even assuming that for some reason you're attempting to trade bricks over a distance.

2) All the recipes I've seen use a number of bricks that is evenly divisible by 10. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some that are divisible by 5 as well, but who's building just one of that construction? If you build two, it's divisible by 10. So there's no situation where you would need 2 more bricks unless you had some leftover from one-by-one crafting. And if you had leftover bricks already, what's the big deal about having leftover bricks again?

This is unrelated to anything above, but how many bricks have you personally made in-game? I made around 2,000 over the last weekend, and it was miserable.

[trenixdecease]

1) I'm not sure what you mean by "less valuable." Bricks are virtually untradeable due to their extreme weight and the massive quantities needed. Also, you already said we would increase the timer for crafting 10 bricks instead of one, so it would only be quicker by the amount of time you spend clicking your tools and stone for each crafting, which isn't much. It would also consume the same amount of materials. The actual change in end-product value would be minimal, even assuming that for some reason you're attempting to trade bricks over a distance.

Bricks overtime will be traded at far distances, it's just a matter of time before we find out when. Check out my ideal system in my response above, it's affective and used by many MMORPGS.

2) All the recipes I've seen use a number of bricks that is evenly divisible by 10. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some that are divisible by 5 as well, but who's building just one of that construction? If you build two, it's divisible by 10. So there's no situation where you would need 2 more bricks unless you had some leftover from one-by-one crafting. And if you had leftover bricks already, what's the big deal about having leftover bricks again?

All recipes that "you've seen" require a divisible of 10. For all you know, there are other recipes out there, in addition, I wonder how they will improve masonry. If paving gets implemented for masonry, maybe we will only require two bricks per each path. This game is all about discovering the unknown, you can't assume that you know the unknown because then you will then cause a deflation. This game is also in beta, you can't assume that there wont any recipes that don't require a divisible of 10 bricks in the future.

This is unrelated to anything above, but how many bricks have you personally made in-game? I made around 2,000 over the last weekend, and it was miserable.

In any sense, I don't want to attack you personally. However, I'm fond of your tribe. They took it up to themselves to build brick walls all around the whole area. That is your problem, because brick walls are difficult to make and I can almost guarantee that was by design. With my own experience, I didn't like the idea of being forced to do the same job that you did. Maybe it's not exactly the crafting system, but rather your tribe. If you were miserable doing something that you've obviously did not like, then why be forced to do it especially when most of the people didn't do it?

[Lead_poisoning]

Bricks overtime will be traded at far distances, it's just a matter of time before we find out when. Check out my ideal system in my response above, it's affective and used by many MMORPGS.



All recipes that "you've seen" require a divisible of 10. For all you know, there are other recipes out there, in addition, I wonder how they will improve masonry. If paving gets implemented for masonry, maybe we will only require two bricks per each path. This game is all about discovering the unknown, you can't assume that you know the unknown because then you will then cause a deflation. This game is also in beta, you can't assume that there wont any recipes that don't require a divisible of 10 bricks in the future.



In any sense, I don't want to attack you personally. However, I'm fond of your tribe. They took it up to themselves to build brick walls all around the whole area. That is your problem, because brick walls are difficult to make and I can almost guarantee that was by design. With my own experience, I didn't like the idea of being forced to do the same job that you did. Maybe it's not exactly the crafting system, but rather your tribe. If you were miserable doing something that you've obviously did not like, then why be forced to do it especially when most of the people didn't do it?

1) Even if they implement some sort of system for transporting larger quantities of goods, it will almost certainly still be easier to produce the bricks on site or nearby than to import them from a distance. And even if they are traded, and the value of an individual brick is decreased, that difference in value will be far outweighed by the advantage of being able to produce a vastly larger quantity of bricks with a fraction of the tedium currently necessary.

2) My point there was that the developers have no reason not to require a round number of bricks, other than purely to confound the players. Even if they decide to require 101 bricks to make a chimney, my second point still stands: what's so terrible about having a handful of bricks leftover? Chances are you're going to need them for something eventually, and even if you don't, it's only a few bricks. At most you've wasted maybe 20 additional seconds, accounting for the increased craft time. I would personally vastly prefer being able to make 10 bricks at a time and occasionally having some leftover than having to make them individually.

I wasn't actually forced to do anything. The tribe was discussing fortifications, and mentioned that we needed several thousand more bricks; I volunteered to produce them. At the time I had no idea what I was getting into, and I initially planned to make at least 6,000 bricks. However, once I realized how incredibly tedious it was, I lowered my goal to a mere 2,000. There was a point behind asking you how many bricks you've personally made: when I say brickmaking is too tedious as it currently is, I say this from the standpoint of someone who has personally made 2,000 bricks and has experienced it firsthand. Please don't take this personally in any way, but unless you've made a mass quantity of bricks for some kind of project, you can't entirely understand what I mean when I say that.

Another thing to keep in mind is that even that massive number of bricks is only enough to make 25 segments of wall. This would be sufficient to construct a square 6x6 sections in size, with one section's worth of bricks leftover. I would consider this a totally reasonable scale of construction. Not everyone needs to make a 30,000 brick monstrosity, but people who want to do something a little more modest should also be able to do so without crippling themselves.

EDIT: I happen to have a little time on my hands now, so I'm going to go ahead and read your crafting system proposal and probably reply to the thread with my opinion on it. However, I'd like to leave this thread on track with a discussion of brick making specifically.

DOUBLE EDIT: Another solution to this entire mess would be to simply set up crafting so that there is some kind of "craft all" option which will have the character continue to repeat the recipe until they run out of materials for it in their inventory. This has no effect on the time required to make an individual brick, does not obligate the player to construct more bricks than they might need, and also spares the masons from carpal tunnel.

[Lead_poisoning]

Well, that proposal was a lot shorter than I anticipated, and now that I read it I realize that I suggested almost exactly what you did at the end of my last post. In my opinion, the "craft all" system would be the ideal way of doing things for any kind of crafting. I initially suggested the 10-at-a-time system because I figured it would be an extremely simple edit to the code that could be performed in a few minutes by a single programmer. However, your proposal would be a much better long-term solution to the crafting problem.

[Xx1327]

take out all the clicks needed for making multiple bricks and just make it to where you need all the resources for said amount of bricks and you click craft and theres a timer for each brick. problem solved

umm