Leaders the time has come to discuss CURRENCY!

[kilrain]

Unless there is a value placed on money from the start as if by a government, we wont be using it any time soon. We will simply barter with goods that are usable.

[Kroom]

We don’t need a “government” to assign value to a currency for us to realize the burden of carrying resources back and forth to complete transactions, trade of gathered resources amplifies this. I think due to transportation and in-game communications limitations currency will be adopted by players faster then expected. In addition, it’s ingrained in our RL cultures and I don’t think RP’ing can conquer that!

[rixk]

There has to be one central figure who is trustworty to put a value behind currency.
Let's say that trustworthy figure says, that 1 button is worth 5 nails. Now player X comes to that trustworthy player, gives him 5 nails and gets 1 button. Now he can use the button and trade something with player Y, player Y can trade with player Z and so on. Without that trustworthy figure when the chain is broken, then the last person ends up with useless button and is missing something, that he traded for that button. But when that trustworthy figure is added to the "formula", then he can always go to that guy and trade this button for 5 nails.

Basically it all comes down to trust, but when you don't have a "bank" in the game, then you have to trust the whole server(which is impossible). With him you only have to trust the bank.

[AlexTaldren]

[QUOTE=rixk;41662]There has to be one central figure who is trustworty to put a value behind currency.
Let's say that trustworthy figure says, that 1 button is worth 5 nails. Now player X comes to that trustworthy player, gives him 5 nails and gets 1 button. Now he can use the button and trade something with player Y, player Y can trade with player Z and so on. Without that trustworthy figure when the chain is broken, then the last person ends up with useless button and is missing something, that he traded for that button. But when that trustworthy figure is added to the "formula", then he can always go to that guy and trade this button for 5 nails.

Basically it all comes down to trust, but when you don't have a "bank" in the game, then you have to trust the whole server(which is impossible). With him you only have to trust the bank.[/QUOTE]

Incorrect. Economies form naturally based on the interactions and agreements between people. No currency should be established by the developers or by us prior to the game's launch. This is how things will work:

Players will discover what items are rare and what items are common. Players will also figure out the value of the various items. Eventually, we'll be trading for specific items, which will become a form of currency. For example, players may discover that everyone needs nails. Therefore, players will start offering nails for specific items until before you know it, it is known that a spiked club is worth 150 nails and a set of bear bone armor is worth 500 nails, etc.

The best part about a system like this, one that naturally evolves and changes, is that the currency players use could be based on the region of the map you're in. Tribes and players close to the lake might use something more valuable as currency, such as a resource not easily found on the coast. Meanwhile, players farther in the mainland and mountains will prefer something else. You could very well see 2-10 different mainstream currencies at the same time, with exchange rates and more.

In summary... agree on a currency now? No way. Let the market (i.e. the players through trade) decide.

[rixk]

Didn't you just describe barter system.. if someone mentions currency, for me it means money. If someone trades goods(clubs) for raw materials(nails), then it is barter system. And yes, that doesn't need any outside interference.

[AlexTaldren]

[QUOTE=rixk;41748]Didn't you just describe barter system.. if someone mentions currency, for me it means money. If someone trades goods(clubs) for raw materials(nails), then it is barter system. And yes, that doesn't need any outside interference.[/QUOTE]

The definition of currency does not equal "money." Currency can be anything from bottle caps (Fallout) to Gold coins (WoW) to paper bills (real life) to nails as I mentioned in my example. Just because it is a resource found in the world doesn't mean it can't be considered a currency. Of course, a resource wouldn't be considered a currency until a large portion of the community accepts it as a means of placing value on other items.

[FabricSoftener]

[QUOTE=AlexTaldren;41861]The definition of currency does not equal "money." Currency can be anything from bottle caps (Fallout) to Gold coins (WoW) to paper bills (real life) to nails as I mentioned in my example. Just because it is a resource found in the world doesn't mean it can't be considered a currency. Of course, a resource wouldn't be considered a currency until a large portion of the community accepts it as a means of placing value on other items.[/QUOTE]

It will be very intresting to see how this evolves even more so without golbal chat.
it really doesnt matter if everyone says 'bottle caps' are the currency if I can get them easily and what I really need is nails.

I am fairly sure what is needed will change over time and if you study the game and what the community is doing at any given time determining what good resources to horde will be a fun exercise and hitting that sweet spot is not something I would advertise anyway

[rixk]

[QUOTE=AlexTaldren;41861]The definition of currency does not equal "money." Currency can be anything from bottle caps (Fallout) to Gold coins (WoW) to paper bills (real life) to nails as I mentioned in my example. Just because it is a resource found in the world doesn't mean it can't be considered a currency. Of course, a resource wouldn't be considered a currency until a large portion of the community accepts it as a means of placing value on other items.[/QUOTE]

This is barter system.. someone who needs nails, will trade for nails. The need is what drives people in situations like that. If woodworkers will accept wood, then for tailors. Money is universal, it has value for everyone.

And in the gold/bottlecaps would be totally useless in those games, when the "central" bank (read: npc vendors) wouldn't guarantee you certain amount of services/goods for your gold. I say it again, money is worth nothing on its own, thats why you can't compare them with Xsyons economic system. Read a bit about the role of central banks (Federal Reserve in US) and how the money is being "made".

[otomotopia]

This is awesome, and the reason why there has been no listed currency. We have to go through the same process as our ancestors did to develop an economy, with or without represented wealth. Obviously its easier to carry around a bunch of little things then your entire inventory of goods, but when its accepted that carrying around all your buttons is equally dangerous to carrying around all your goods... that's the key tipping point for a legitimate currency. This isn't going to be solved any time soon, but we should address it when we have goods that we are trading.

[Kroom]

Money is NOT universal, never was and still isn’t today...

“Tribes” of today use different forms of currency and have the ability to be exchanged for others “tribes” currency based upon global economics being overseen by an exclusive membership “tribe” (e.g. the World Bank, international financial institution).

Obviously the system works for those member tribes that have representative members (e.g. World Bank) while none represented “tribes” are repressed and suffer. One of the first steps in absorbing a foreign population is forcing them to adopt your currency.

Currency will be adopted locally but never will be globally unless one single entity dominates the world. First it will be [I]our[/I] currency, next will be the absorption of [I]our[/I] culture. Which isn’t going to happen without a FIGHT! I rebuke thee...

[B]F-R-E-E-D-O-M![/B]