Leaders the time has come to discuss CURRENCY!

[otomotopia]

Okay, now you sound like a conspiracy theorist.

[Kroom]

I am trying to make a point with a little RP regarding the subject...

Let it be known, I am not a leader of a tribe but will gladly leaned aid in rebelling against any regime that secretly conspiracies to implement global rule!

[IMG]http://1000diamonds.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/braveheart.jpg[/IMG]

[Jeebus]

[QUOTE=nlgray;42298]I am trying to make a point with a little RP regarding the subject...

Let it be known, I am not a leader of a tribe but will gladly leaned aid in rebelling against any regime that secretly conspiracies to implement global rule!

[IMG]http://1000diamonds.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/braveheart.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]


Will you crush them like a werum?

[rixk]

[QUOTE=nlgray;42137]Money is NOT universal, never was and still isn’t today...
[/QUOTE]

You concentrate too much on what is written on the "bill", not the "bill" itself. Money IS universal, it has value to every member in the community.

That is what is lacking in Xsyon, there is no such item, which is valuable for every citizen regardless of profession. Food is, but it is too common, everyone can keep themselves supplied. And that is, why I think there will be no money in Xsyon, for people it is easier/safer to trade their goods for something they need, than to make a buffer trade for "money agreed on forums" with the risk to get stuck with it because noone really needs it from some point on.

[Kroom]

[QUOTE=rixk;42547]You concentrate too much on what is written on the "bill", not the "bill" itself. Money IS universal, it has value to every member in the community.

That is what is lacking in Xsyon, there is no such item, which is valuable for every citizen regardless of profession. Food is, but it is too common, everyone can keep themselves supplied. And that is, why I think there will be no money in Xsyon, for people it is easier/safer to trade their goods for something they need, than to make a buffer trade for "money agreed on forums" with the risk to get stuck with it because noone really needs it from some point on.[/QUOTE]

Point taken, the concept of money is universal. The value and face of the money differ…

I think what you are seeking is very different what is being asked in this thread. Not player driven but something actually hard coded into the game. Yes?

[rixk]

[QUOTE=nlgray;42654]Point taken, the concept of money is universal. The value and face of the money differ…

I think what you are seeking is very different what is being asked in this thread. Not player driven but something actually hard coded into the game. Yes?[/QUOTE]

No, it has to be playerdriven.

There will be definitely situation, when someone wants to sell something and actually doesn't need something special for it. I am also sure that there will be people around, who exclusively focus on trading. Now it would be great, if those bigtime traders could mark the moneybills, which we can scavenge. So person, who wants to sell the item, can get tokens from trader. In reality seller just gets tokens of credit from the trader, which assure, that whenever he wants, he can go back to trader and purchase certain amount of goods from the trader. If there are enough clients for the trader, then those tokens of credit can be used to trade between all the clients without involving trader itself in every trade. Because in the end it doesn't matter, who goes back to the trader and exchanges credits back for goods.
But using that system we can be sure, that every "bill" has been backed with goods.

Few remarks:
It can't happen straight away, there has to be time to build trust between trader and customers.
Also a problem is, what will happen when trader decides to quit the game without notice. Although, when he is trustworthy, then he probably settles his things before doing such thing.
EDIT:Marking of bills is vital, otherwise trader can never be sure, if the bills originate from him or not.
Of course all this written here doesn't mean, that this bird would lift off in Xsyon, but at least this would be a way to give value to the bills we scavenge.

As english isn't my native language, I hope all written here is clear, if not, just ask

[FabricSoftener]

guys!

The real 'value' of the US dollar is based on gold which is a resource that is nearly useless in the modern era (even in any era when you think about it). Its doesnt take much to figure out that 'money' is actually nothing more than a trust document, not a document of actual use or value.

its not a theory, its just obvious.

what am I going to do with a big pile of gold when everyone needs to heat their home. well convert that gold into oil. hmm why not just have the oil instead to begin with

[bodangly]

US dollar is NOT based upon a gold standard. This was changed many years ago. As for the difference between currency and barter I encourage anyone to read: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_currency[/url] as opposed to [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_money[/url] .

[quote]Fiat currency (wikipedia): The term fiat money has been defined variously as:
any money declared by a government to be legal tender.
state-issued money which is neither legally convertible to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.
money without intrinsic value

Example as applies to Xsyon: There are two ways for fiat currency to enter Xsyon. Firstly would be if the developers implemented a currency, for example, bottle caps in Fallout. The other way would be if a large tribe instituted a currency with no value behind it. This is tough since basically every item has some use in crafting, so basically anything that isn't implemented by a developer will end up being a commodity currency.
[/quote]

[quote]Commodity money (wikipedia): Commodity money is money whose value comes from a commodity out of which it is made. It is objects that have value in themselves as well as for use as money.[1]

Examples of commodities that have been used as mediums of exchange include gold, silver, copper, peppercorns, large stones (such as Rai stones), decorated belts, shells, alcohol, cigarettes, cannabis, candy, barley etc. These items were sometimes used in a metric of perceived value in conjunction to one another, in various commodity valuation or price system economies.

Example as applies to Xsyon: Nails become a standard in measuring value. They can both be used to trade, or as actual nails. I suppose you may call it barter if trading specifically to obtain nails for use; while it is commodity money when the nails are being used as an intermediary
[/quote]

[quote]General barter definition (wikipedia): Barter is a method of exchange by which goods or services are directly exchanged for other goods or services without using a medium of exchange, such as money.

Example as applies to Xsyon: I need tarps and have an excess of tools, so I trade with a tailor who needs tools to get my tarp.
[/quote]
What we will see in Xsyon is going to be commodity money mixed with barter. Not exactly a pure barter system, but not the same as fiat or government issued currency.

[Kroom]

[QUOTE=rixk;42721]There will be definitely situation, when someone wants to sell something and actually doesn't need something special for it. I am also sure that there will be people around, who exclusively focus on trading. Now it would be great, if those bigtime traders could mark the moneybills, which we can scavenge.[/QUOTE]

This requires a change in the code, great idea but *I think* the point of the thread was for tribe leaders to come to a conclusion the value of items based on what the game offers now.

RE: FabricSoftener and rixk

I don’t think we are in disagreement at all... I will chalk it up to my poor communication skills. =)

The point of my rant is tribe leaders cannot sit down and dictate the value of anything based on the current game mechanics pre-launch. Post-launch they can [I]try[/I] but will find various points of resistance due the pvp tribe politics and pioneer aspects the game promotes.

We need to be very cautious allowing any “super-power” tribes dictating the economy of the game. If we idly allow it we risk the absorption of the player community. I had to leave my previous MMO due to this because one group consumed most of the player base and became self-appointed leaders of the game world. It killed the pvp aspects of the game. So now, they twiddle their thumbs bitching on the forums and blaming game mechanics for the lack of pvp. They managed this even without the possibility of setting currency standards within the game. With the possibility of dedicating the currency here, I see the potential of a single super-power rising faster.

Similar (RP) conflicts are going to occurring relating to resources/economy in game as in real life. Which I think is awesome!

So, the first time someone tells me “we only accept XXX...” because of a 50+ man tribe five zones away set an artificial currency based on a resource that is convenient for them I will have a new enemy in-game and so should you.

[KeithStone]

if a strong alliance of tribes get together and all decide to use prewar money as their currency- then we will all end up using it.

However at first, I'm sure it's going to be a mostly barter trade system until tribes and cities start to get established and then at some point tribes will get together and declare a currency.