View Poll Results: Macros allowed?

Voters
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  • Yes!

    52 17.93%
  • No!

    225 77.59%
  • Undecided!

    13 4.48%
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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek View Post
    We are talking about macroing relatively simple tasks not writing bots for combat and such. Anyway the kind of skill up systems I've eluded to, such as offline progression, are immune to macros.


    You would rather have the majority of a GM's time spent investigating macro abuse reports instead of something like GM controlled NPC invasions?


    You are being naive.


    Again, tie up the majority of a GM's time for this sort of thing?


    You are being naive again. In Darkfall, players found ways to glitch inside of walls and under the world to macro skills 24/7 without any risk. That is just one example.


    Policing alone should not be the manner in which to combat macroing. History has proven this fails horribly.



    The point is not moot. Players who macro will gain a huge competitive advantage.


    Really? So you don't mind other players gaining a huge competitive advantage over you?


    You're being naive again.

    The only mechanism currently in the game which will help combat macros is the soft cap on skills. Some people argue stamina use will help but this is just an obstacle that can be overcome with a rest/eat script. There are also rumors that a macro detection system is in place that stops skill gain but I have not seen any evidence of it.

    This is my last post on this subject because it has been beaten to death and keeps going in circles.
    I think you and I have some differences in terminology.

    When I say policing I don't mean just watching in a game client to see if someone is "acting weird." It means checking databases with scripts too. So the huge competitive advantage you are referring to would be noticeable statistically. Things like consecutive hours played, total hours played, total skill points and xp gained, should all be analyzed by a script and outliers should be investigated. One could not gain a huge competitive advantage without drawing scrutiny. Hiding in a rock wouldn't help at all. You know that GM's can tell where people are and move them right?

    Games get ruined by cheaters and automation. I would definitely rather see GMs stay on top of that problem than spawn some mobs. Maintaining the integrity of the game is their job in my eyes, not running special events (which everyone will complain about afterward for some reason or another anyway).

    You say you are only talking about simple macros when you respond to the beginning of my post and then in the end you talk about an eat/rest script (presumably being implemented alongside whatever skilling macro is going on) which is just the kind of complexity I was talking about. I am not talking about a full-fledged combat bot (let's wait till we get a real combat system to worry about that).

    Clearly I mind people gaining a competitive advantage by cheating. That's what my whole post was about. When I said that I don't care if someone uses a macro in a way that is indistinguishable from normal gameplay it means that they are not gaining a competitive advantage. Someone who has gained a competitive advantage from macroing is distinguishable statistically. It's not technically macros that bother me, it's cheating and the accelerated pace of the game that comes from the automation arms race.

    So your answer is to make the skill system a clone of Eve. The same thing gets suggested by every Eve fan in every game they go to, but yet still most games don't use that system. It's a completely different dynamic and most people who don't play Eve don't really want an offline progression system. That was one of the things I liked least about Eve when I tried it. Darkfall was "ruined" by macros according to many (I never played it I admit). The macroing essentially made it a game with offline progression... and people considered that "ruined." What does that tell you about how popular that idea would be?

    The game releases in a few days, they aren't going to change the skill system to offline progression. Now who is being naive? You already said you are done with the conversation, which is fine since you aren't contributing anything constructive.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by blackice View Post
    I really just wanted to get peoples opinions on it. i can see only around 10% of people would support that in general. Keeping in mind that its still illegal its kinda like asking a pothead if he should think weed should be legalised.
    i say yes to weed and macros.
    thing is, if the game mechanics invite you to macro, for example that they put a need on you to do the same spell/click 1000 times, you might as well macro it instead of actually do the clicking - i play mmo's, i played DF, and my idea of fun isn't to do the same thing over and over again for skillgains.

    That being said, there is not gonna be anywhere near the same macroing in Xsyon as in DF, because DF had the worst grind in MMO history, and in order to be competative you really had to repeat the same actions in safezones beyond the edge of sanity -> macroing was just a natural consequence. The only thing I've seen so far in X that invites you to macro is fishing, which doesnt give you any huge advantages over other players - besides it could easily be fixed the same way foraging and scavenging was; 'you were just fishing here recently'.

    If they start paying out melee skillpoints for hitting friendly players, you can be sure macroing will skyrocket, at least since DFO's player base is already here

  3. #23
    the only way for defeat macro is make something unmacrable
    this can be done with add random events
    like fishing -> ur rod break/u catch a water monster
    scavaging -> u get disease and need healed
    foraging -> u find poisoned food
    etc

  4. #24
    Visitor BigCountry's Avatar
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    We need to be able to "knock back" or push someone out of his/her safe territory. That way if he/she is macroing you can knock them out of the safe zone and kill them. This way the players can police it. It should not be a dev problem. The devs have enough to worry about as it is, and I do not want them wasting man hours on something like this. There is nothing a dev can do anyway if someone wants to press a key on his/her keyboard every 10 seconds. That's a problem with the game mechanic, not the person doing it.

  5. #25
    i made a lot of macros in other games... in wow i was a dudu tank and with 2 g15 keys i was able to tank everything... btw wow is a different case...
    in others game i made small program for let me the work more easy... btw the problem is always the same... when u need to do the same repetitive command for do something... macro come out and can't be blocked easly

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by BigCountry View Post
    We need to be able to "knock back" or push someone out of his/her safe territory. That way if he/she is macroing you can knock them out of the safe zone and kill them. This way the players can police it. It should not be a dev problem. The devs have enough to worry about as it is, and I do not want them wasting man hours on something like this. There is nothing a dev can do anyway if someone wants to press a key on his/her keyboard every 10 seconds. That's a problem with the game mechanic, not the person doing it.
    this.

  7. #27

  8. #28
    Visitor BigCountry's Avatar
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    skill cap helps a lot too. if darkfall would of had a skill cap it would of reduced the macroing 100x.

  9. #29
    People who macro can't be beaten easily. Let everyone macro I say and design the game for macroing. I would even go as far as having a macro program embedded in the game. If you can't beat them then join them.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by BigCountry View Post
    skill cap helps a lot too. if darkfall would of had a skill cap it would of reduced the macroing 100x.
    you would rather put restrictions on a sandbox game than just tweak the game mechanics a little to render macroing useless in the first place?
    as the game is now, without a skillcap (that i know of), what exactly would you macro / what are you afraid that I'd macro?

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