Macro poll. Yes or No?

[Zenmaster13]

DING DING DING! We have a winner!!!

Sorry but you are wrong. You and the other mal-informed posters who keep touting "it's a design problem, it's the games fault, it's the devs fault,etc." are all wrong. This is not an opinion.

Stop your hypotheticals and give us some concrete solutions. You guys keep saying "all they have to do is program the game properly and all will be well". How exactly do you propose this? Please do not use conjecture or fanciful ideas on how it should work.

Also, seeing as how computer gaming has been around for quite a long time now, I would like you to list some games where the devs "got it right" and totally prevented macroing. Good luck to you on that journey because it will follow along something like "The Old Man and The Sea" if you catch my meaning.

[Belight]

Sorry but you are wrong. You and the other mal-informed posters who keep touting "it's a design problem, it's the games fault, it's the devs fault,etc." are all wrong. This is not an opinion.

Stop your hypotheticals and give us some concrete solutions. You guys keep saying "all they have to do is program the game properly and all will be well". How exactly do you propose this? Please do not use conjecture or fanciful ideas on how it should work.

Also, seeing as how computer gaming has been around for quite a long time now, I would like you to list some games where the devs "got it right" and totally prevented macroing. Good luck to you on that journey because it will follow along something like "The Old Man and The Sea" if you catch my meaning.

Sorry, but you are wrong. See how easy it is to claim something like that? And yes, I assure you it is an opinion. Don't kid yourself.

We have given concreate solutions. In the original post I quoted the poster gave a perfect example of how hiding could work in a fun, involving way, that strongly deters macroing. Is it my responsibility to offer a macroing solution for every single feature in Xsyon? They better put me on their payroll if that's the case.

I could turn around and say the same shit about your solution of banning macroers. How do you propose the company enforce that? How do they prove it? How do they detect it? How do they get the money to pay all the people it would take to enforce such a thing? Do you think the macroers will just be magically banned by the ToS?

Your argument supports wasting dev time and money to police players and reduce their number of paying subscribers, rather than spend that time and money on building better game mechanics that have the side effects of deterring macro use!

Again, I can just as easily turn this around on you, give me one example where enforcing the ToS against macros has removed macroing from a game?

[Zenmaster13]

Sorry, but you are wrong. See how easy it is to claim something like that? And yes, I assure you it is an opinion. Don't kid yourself.

We have given concreate solutions. In the original post I quoted the poster gave a perfect example of how hiding could work in a fun, involving way, that strongly deters macroing. Is it my responsibility to offer a macroing solution for every single feature in Xsyon? They better put me on their payroll if that's the case.

I could turn around and say the same shit about your solution of banning macroers. How do you propose the company enforce that? How do they prove it? How do they detect it? How do they get the money to pay all the people it would take to enforce such a thing? Do you think the macroers will just be magically banned by the ToS?

Your argument supports wasting dev time and money to police players and reduce their number of paying subscribers, rather than spend that time and money on building better game mechanics that have the side effects of deterring macro use!

Again, I can just as easily turn this around on you, give me one example where enforcing the ToS against macros has removed macroing from a game?

Funny stuff. Anyone in any argument can take an opposite postion. It's called debating.

I am a programmer. I know what I am talking about. I ask you a question, but you refuse to answer, then respond with a bunch of hyperbole. Very poor argument.

Go ahead name a few games that you cannot macro. Avoid this question if you like, but your proof would be in the answer.

Your "solution" was read by me, that is why I respond. It is not a solution. Any input you or anyone else provides CAN be macroed. Deny all you want, but proof is your only recourse here.

You will never be on a dev payroll with your solutions.

Though I could, I will not give you lessons on how to track offenders. The company can enforce rules however they like. Money comes from you, I, and every other customer. No macroers will not be "magically" banned, but rather quite practically, by an employee of the company. See it's not that hard to answer questions. Your turn =)

[Killarai]

I don't want to butt in too much, but the first game that comes to mind is FFXIV, no matter how horrid that game is at the moment, they managed to do away with any possible macroing aside from their own macro editor for simple key to action/text macros.

A small mini-game for crafting with a randomized invisible target that you get 3 or so chances to hit and gives you graded material or crafted item, it works brilliantly and they use it for every crafting and resource gathering skill in the game.

[Belight]

Funny stuff. Anyone in any argument can take an opposite postion. It's called debating.
Yeah, only I'm not claiming my opinions are fact.

I am a programmer. I know what I am talking about. I ask you a question, but you refuse to answer, then respond with a bunch of hyperbole. Very poor argument.
Programmers are a dime a dozen, good for you, it doesn't mean you have good ideas, and imagination, and the end all knowledge to any video game debate..

Go ahead name a few games that you cannot macro. Avoid this question if you like, but your proof would be in the answer.
No one is talking about existing games. It's completely beside the point. The point is that it's of our opinion that dev time would be better spent creating new, creative, and macro deterrant features. Or we could just accept the same old bullshit mindnumbing click, click, click systems and then bitch about people macroing them? What good is programming without imagination and innovation?

Your "solution" was read by me, that is why I respond. It is not a solution. Any input you or anyone else provides CAN be macroed. Deny all you want, but proof is your only recourse here.
I thought it was a great solution. It sounds fun and it would make macroing very hard. No one said anything about making a perfect system. We are talking about DETERRING macro usage, which is a very realistic idea.

You will never be on a dev payroll with your solutions.
Thanks, Miss Cleo, any other psychic revelations you'd like to make about a complete stranger?

Though I could, I will not give you lessons on how to track offenders. The company can enforce rules however they like. Money comes from you, I, and every other customer. No macroers will not be "magically" banned, but rather quite practically, by an employee of the company. See it's not that hard to answer questions. Your turn =)
I disagree that it is practical to ban someone (if it was this thread wouldnt even exist), and I disagree that it is a good use of money and resources, and I disagree that banning some macros will solve the issue. If you care to disprove me with your all mighty programmer wisdom, I'm all ears. If the devs don't want to take steps to create new ideas, systems, and ways for players to be immersed then there wont be any money at all, because their game will crash and burn like sooooo many others that did the exact same thing.

But, opinions are opinions I suppose.

[Killarai]

Eehh, I'd like to also say that the Dev's would like to refrain from banning any potential customers, even if they're offenders to the greatest degree.
I've managed users as customers, we'd manage their statistics and weigh in whether it was worth the removal for our own profit, this is just how an MMO works.

These were hackers, mind you.. Not even simple macroers.

It is very good practice to develop systems that sway customers to play the way the game is meant to be played and not just an easy grind fest managed through a macro application.

This is only from my own personal experience dealing with customers on an MMO in a professional setting, I have no idea how Xsyon manages the users or how they would like to in the near future. - It's not an option to keep up a management for macroers, banning and warning them, you may do this while a system for this is in the works that will sway them otherwise, however.

[ac1dtrip]

Funny stuff. Anyone in any argument can take an opposite postion. It's called debating.

I am a programmer. I know what I am talking about. I ask you a question, but you refuse to answer, then respond with a bunch of hyperbole. Very poor argument.

Go ahead name a few games that you cannot macro. Avoid this question if you like, but your proof would be in the answer.

Your "solution" was read by me, that is why I respond. It is not a solution. Any input you or anyone else provides CAN be macroed. Deny all you want, but proof is your only recourse here.

You will never be on a dev payroll with your solutions.

Though I could, I will not give you lessons on how to track offenders. The company can enforce rules however they like. Money comes from you, I, and every other customer. No macroers will not be "magically" banned, but rather quite practically, by an employee of the company. See it's not that hard to answer questions. Your turn =)

Beer pong.

[Belight]

Eehh, I'd like to also say that the Dev's would like to refrain from banning any potential customers, even if they're offenders to the greatest degree.
I've managed users as customers, we'd manage their statistics and weigh in whether it was worth the removal for our own profit, this is just how an MMO works.

These were hackers, mind you.. Not even simple macroers.

It is very good practice to develop systems that sway customers to play the way the game is meant to be played and not just an easy grind fest managed through a macro application.

This is only from my own personal experience dealing with customers on an MMO in a professional setting, I have no idea how Xsyon manages the users or how they would like to in the near future. - It's not an option to keep up a management for macroers, banning and warning them, you may do this while a system for this is in the works that will sway them otherwise, however.

Insightful! Thank you.

For the record, I voted "No" on this poll. I don't support macroing, but I don't think a witch hunt is the best solution.

[d3m0nd0]

Insightful! Thank you.

For the record, I voted "No" on this poll. I don't support macroing, but I don't think a witch hunt is the best solution.

Why not both a witch hunt and a fix for macroing form developers? And how about the community helping to? Instead of everyone point fingers at each other maybe then something would be done. Hope this thread gets closed soon.
This discussion about macros is well.....



Note: The Donkey isnt dead, he's just rolling over, but if he did die, This would be the best position for a picture to be taken and posted in a topic just like this one.

[Killarai]

You don't mass ban when it can potentially harm your already dwindling revenue.
A "Witch Hunt" won't do anything, best they'll get at this point is a short period suspension or a "stern talking to".