False Sense of Security With Prelude

[Aethaeryn]

Do we know what sieging will look like? Do we know you will be able to attack a tribe with no notice and completely destroy it? Will there be timers? I hope it won't be quite as open and instant as 50 guys rolling through an areas wiping everyone out while they are offline. I could be wrong though.

EDIT: Okay it says safe zones only through prelude. It also suggests that during prelude new features will be added. Hopefully some of these will be defensive in nature. I am a PvPer but I also realize that while open PvP is "realistic" people not being online is not. There has to be some way to protect a tribe or the offensive tribe will always win because they will be prepared. And after tribe A destroys tribe B while they are offline - tribe B will do the same to A at some point. We will end up with an empty world of roaming gankers.

I agree with your point. If it is implemented that way people are going to freak out for sure. The truth is I have already invested time into games like that DF, MO etc. so I am looking for something a little different here. Not that I won't play it but I would like to see the PvP a little more organized and goal based than that. Here's to hoping the Devs have some ideas planned.

[KeithStone]

Do we know what sieging will look like? Do we know you will be able to attack a tribe with no notice and completely destroy it? Will there be timers? I hope it won't be quite as open and instant as 50 guys rolling through an areas wiping everyone out while they are offline. I could be wrong though.

EDIT: Okay it says safe zones only through prelude. It also suggests that during prelude new features will be added. Hopefully some of these will be defensive in nature. I am a PvPer but I also realize that while open PvP is "realistic" people not being online is not. There has to be some way to protect a tribe or the offensive tribe will always win because they will be prepared. And after tribe A destroys tribe B while they are offline - tribe B will do the same to A at some point. We will end up with an empty world of roaming gankers.

I agree with your point. If it is implemented that way people are going to freak out for sure. The truth is I have already invested time into games like that DF, MO etc. so I am looking for something a little different here. Not that I won't play it but I would like to see the PvP a little more organized and goal based than that. Here's to hoping the Devs have some ideas planned.

Thank you, finally someone understands what I'm talking about- it will really help you guys to read the part where Aethaeryn put in the EDIT- then my post will make more sense to you all.

[Jadzia]

@OP:

1. It isn't announced how tribe sieges will work. Its only your assumption that it will be FFA PvP. Thats very very unlikely IMO.
2. Absolutely agree. Thats why Jordi plans to add options to build defenses around our towns, walls and gates. If they don't give minimum 95% of protection there will be an uproar for sure.
3. I don't agree.

Check the poll about safe zones in game. 75% of the players voted on keeping them. I know they voted on safe zones during Prelude, not in general, and that forum community doesn't represent the whole game community...still it shows something. Let's say only 50% of the community wants constant safe zones and optional tribe sieges. These 50% will leave if the game turn into a Darkfall type game (which Jordi stated would never happen). The other 50% who wants a free FFA PvP game will leave if the safe zones stay.

Now whats the solution ? I'm sure Jordi don't want to lose half of his playerbase, whichever half would it be. Thats why he stated from the very beginning that if there was a demand, he would set up 2 different servers with different PvP rules, one for FFA and one with safe zones. Is this the best solution ? I don't think so. But better than lose half of the players.

This is what I would like to see after Prelude:
1. The Prelude area stays as it is now, with an option for the tribe to flag for sieges and to switch off their safety.
2. The green mist disappears and that gives us a much bigger playground. Let's say the ancient gods got mad because of the chaos and decided to keep half of the new land safe. That area would be a big safe zone, just like Eve's high sec space. No tribe sieges, a player can attack and kill another one but if he do so an angel appears and insta kill him.
3. The other half of the new land become an outlaw area. Tribes who settle there can siege and kill and destroy each others as much as they like. No PvP penalties there, PvPers can enjoy fighting without any punishment. Resource gathering should result double or triple as much resources as in safe zones to help people to survive there. Outlaw and safe zone players shouldn't be allowed to trade with each others.
There should be rare things which can only be found in the outlaw area. Let's say high level very rare recipe books. This way the safe zones players would go there to search for them giving the opportunity the outlaw players to fight new enemies.

This is only my opinion and my view of course I'm not expecting anyone to agree with it.

[rixk]

It's not a lobby against safe zone- that's why I made this post- and you just proved it to me- you already have a false sense of security- after prelude THERE WILL BE NO SAFE ZONES.

Currently I am having very real sense of security, thank you.. I have already shown finger emote to someone, who tried to gank me while I was fishing in my homestead
There is also long time until prelude will be over, nothing is set in stone.

But as Jordi has said in one of his interview: "What sets Xsyon apart is a focus on building and creating a new world and not relying on PvP as the driving force. The Xsyon setting is also based on reality and not a fantasy universe. This gives us the opportunity to introduce real locations and later historical lore to make Xsyon a somewhat educational experience.".
Removing safezones would have totally opposite effect to what he is trying to achieve. So I am quite sure, that even if the safezones will be removed, then killing someone at their tribe area will be very undesireable act to do.

[Mishima]

As I've understood it, we'll see tribal warfare after prelude, not simply the removal of every safezone in the whole game.

The only sensible thing imho would be to implement this as some kind of consensual system, i.e. as war declarations - meaning tribes that wish to siege and be sieged, and to engage in asset destruction, can do this to their heart's content, at the same time letting people who have no interest in such activities stay safe in their own lands. The war decs do not necessarily have to be totally consensual ofc (war is pretty useless if your opponent has to agree to it); perhaps it could only be possible to declare war on another tribe as a result of certain acts of aggression, theft or border violation, or something like that.

A game like this needs some restrictions when it comes to PvP, otherwise it'll go down fast and only leave those who enjoy PvPing 24/7. Since there are no NPC areas, players not wanting to risk their assets should not be forced to be online all the time just to keep them safe. If every safezone is removed, only large tribed that can keep people logged on around the clock will remain.

[Chavoda]

Save zones Will go, what is not very clearly stated is how the game will evolve toward tribe conquering.
In my view and how I read all the bits of info scattered around it will be so that core tribe land will never be destroyed. the save zone is gone and hostile tribes can come and pull your panties over your head, steal resource piles, perhaps even thief from containers whit the appropriate skills but not destroy your core land.
The fights will be for the extended land.

Resources while great to have right now in prelude next door will not remain, by the time save zones removed we probably will see a mayor land shift as tribes will try to claim spots closer to mines and other natural resources.

For most big PvP tribes its not even about resources but about fame, about dropping a flag somewhere and saying -we own this!- I personalty hope that one day we will see a mechanic were tribes can form alliances under the same flag and say (whit game mechanic support) this is our land, work whit us if you live here and be save, work against us and be raised each night. ( aka middle ages) this could be reflected by some kind of nice pole whit a flag waving in the air showing the colors of the alliance/tribe that has the claim on the area. and laws set by them count of the entire territory they have claim on.

In MO technical issues aside we saw a lot of smaller clans and roaming bands dissolve melt whit this bigger boys as it would and should go naturally. the same will happen in Xsyon.

The lack of save zones after prelude is a well known fact anyone forming up solo or ina tribe knows this and while some players live in lala land most that i seen play testing are well aware of this and forming up friendly relations even the PK's are talking in chat like "hey see ya later i'm going to kill some folks over at the other side of the lake" they are well aware that roaming their own neighborhood hood ain't the most smart idea.

I can understand were your coming from but right now its way way way to early to tell how things will work out.

Edit: hmm I have to correct this while I look for for some info. while unknown how..tribes can be destroyed by other tribes as stated in a old awnser/question session.

seems I was on the rumor mill myself hahaha

[KeithStone]

@OP:

1. It isn't announced how tribe sieges will work. Its only your assumption that it will be FFA PvP. Thats very very unlikely IMO.
2. Absolutely agree. Thats why Jordi plans to add options to build defenses around our towns, walls and gates. If they don't give minimum 95% of protection there will be an uproar for sure.
3. I don't agree.

Check the poll about safe zones in game. 75% of the players voted on keeping them. I know they voted on safe zones during Prelude, not in general, and that forum community doesn't represent the whole game community...still it shows something. Let's say only 50% of the community wants constant safe zones and optional tribe sieges. These 50% will leave if the game turn into a Darkfall type game (which Jordi stated would never happen). The other 50% who wants a free FFA PvP game will leave if the safe zones stay.

Now whats the solution ? I'm sure Jordi don't want to lose half of his playerbase, whichever half would it be. Thats why he stated from the very beginning that if there was a demand, he would set up 2 different servers with different PvP rules, one for FFA and one with safe zones. Is this the best solution ? I don't think so. But better than lose half of the players.

This is what I would like to see after Prelude:
1. The Prelude area stays as it is now, with an option for the tribe to flag for sieges and to switch off their safety.
2. The green mist disappears and that gives us a much bigger playground. Let's say the ancient gods got mad because of the chaos and decided to keep half of the new land safe. That area would be a big safe zone, just like Eve's high sec space. No tribe sieges, a player can attack and kill another one but if he do so an angel appears and insta kill him.
3. The other half of the new land become an outlaw area. Tribes who settle there can siege and kill and destroy each others as much as they like. No PvP penalties there, PvPers can enjoy fighting without any punishment. Resource gathering should result double or triple as much resources as in safe zones to help people to survive there. Outlaw and safe zone players shouldn't be allowed to trade with each others.
There should be rare things which can only be found in the outlaw area. Let's say high level very rare recipe books. This way the safe zones players would go there to search for them giving the opportunity the outlaw players to fight new enemies.

This is only my opinion and my view of course I'm not expecting anyone to agree with it.

Response to your points:

1. It's not my assumption that it will be FFA PVP - it has been stated this way - when I say FFA i'm talking about the ability to attack someone anywhere, even on tribal territory - with consequences of course for being a pk.
3. There will be tribes that go inactive between now and the end of prelude, it's just a matter of time.

Being a "good" tribe isn't going to give your territory a free ticket for not getting pk'd inside your tribe lands after prelude.

[Imhotep]

safezone must go after prelude or there will be no endgame, politics and economy. the only future of the time of peace is indeed a WAR

[bruisie159]

My understanding is this...and I don't know where I got this info from!
FFA pvp will happen anywhere (with consequences) but initial home tribe lands/settlements will not be captured or destroyed only secondary land in resource rich new area can be claimed and fought over.

Not saying this is right just what I thought was true. Some official confirmation is needed for sure.

[JCatano]

My understanding is this...and I don't know where I got this info from!
FFA pvp will happen anywhere (with consequences) but initial home tribe lands/settlements will not be captured or destroyed only secondary land in resource rich new area can be claimed and fought over.

Not saying this is right just what I thought was true. Some official confirmation is needed for sure.

The only way I'd agree with that is if the current area was the only place you could have a tribe town safe from conquering (not PvP) mechanics. The area would also need to be less desirable. Low on resources, newbie mobs, and no higher tier perks. Basically, a starter area.