My PvP Idea

[willbonney]

So, I have been thinking a lot recently with the recurring PvP discussions going on. I "think" but am not sure if I have come up with something that is a workable idea.

To be able to "make war" on someone else, you must first make yourself vulnerable "to war." As in, to be able to kill someone on someone else's Tribal Lands, you must first make yourself vulnerable to be killed.

This could also work the same way for a "Tribal War" system. As in, if you want to try to take over someone else's "Tribal Land" you must first make your land vulnerable to being taken over.

Example (only an example, not saying this would ever happen, lol): Regulators are sick of Hopi's, Hopi's are sick of Regulators. They both decide to attempt a war, make themselves vulnerable, and fight it out. Now, while they are fighting, the Templars decide they will try an attack while those two are busy, make themselves vulnerable, and go attack Regulators. Then, because Templars are hated by the DHoV guys, they make themselves vulnerable and attempt to take over Templar Land while they are off fighting.

Throw a 6 hour or 24 timer on changing the "vulnerable/invulnerable" option, and there ya' go. Sure, someone will have to be "first" to go vulnerable for someone else to try to take them over, but if months go on and no one does it, well, we're all bigger "carebears" then we claim to be then aren't we?

[willbonney]

heh, whoops, think this is already the plan lol, didn't see Virtus' post yesterday here, lol
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post46390

Though, not sure if the idea to have to go "vulnerable" before trying to take someone over has been mentioned, eh.

[willbonney]

My Full Xsyon PvP Idea

Well, I couldn't sleep once again tonight, and once again I had Xsyon on the brain. And as many in my tribe have already found out, when I can't sleep, I come up with ideas. I came up with a much more broad, and at the same time in depth PvP system, that I would like to see. Warning, be prepared for a lengthy post:


This idea would first off add a new "tab" on the tribal totem. That tab would be a War tab. In it would be a single check mark, labeled Vulnerable, and a normally "grayed out" button labeled Declare War.

Vulnerable
When checked, it makes your tribe Vulnerable to be attacked by other tribes that also have their totem set to Vulnerable, on your Tribal Land. No tribe that still has their "totem" protection set to on, will be able to attack other tribes with theirs set off on the "Defending" Tribal lands. Basically, if you have protection, you cannot attack someone without it. Once selected, you cannot change your Vulnerable status for 24 hours.

Is up to Jooky really here if he wants to incorporate the "Good/Evil/Neutral" deal if he wants, as in "forcing" an Evil tribe to always have this feature "turned on" as in that tribe is always Vulnerable.

Declare War
Next, once you have made your tribe "Vulnerable," the Declare War button would change to be "clickable." Clicking on the Declare War button would then open up a new window, similar to how opening up a craft list does. This new window however would list every Tribe that has their totem selected to Vulnerable. If then they select a tribe and hit an "enter" button, it would then officially Declare War on that tribe.

Declaration of War

Now, with many games, I have seen it be always a 24hour timer from the time war was declared, to when combat could take place. I don't like that, it leaves it in the hands purely on the aggressor, and not the defender. Since this is my idea, I would like to see this:
When war is declared, a 60 minute timer begins for the Tribe who had the war declared upon, to choose 3 options: 6, 12, and 24 hours. This would leave it up to the "defending" tribe to decide when the battle should begin. If no selection has been made (make sure it takes a certain rank option to select this time), then the game engine itself chooses one of the three options for them.

Once a "time of Battle" is chosen a new timer would show up on both the aggressor and defender Tribal Totems.

Battle
One hour before the Battle commences, the Tribes are allowed to build siege weapons. These weapons can vary, as in, trebuchets, ballista's, pots of burning oil for the defenders, as well as battering rams, ladders, and those "rolling wooden towers" for the aggressors. Only during this 60 minutes can any siege engines be built. The Aggressors must build their siege engines at least 250m away from the border of the Defending tribes border. After that 60 minutes is up, no more siege engines can be built by either Tribe. This again makes things a bit easier for the Defenders, as the Aggressors will have to carry all their materials to a destination close to the Defending Tribe, to then build their engines. Leaves them open to be attacked, and lose those materials.

The Battle starts, and the aggressors attempt to destroy the defenders walls, kill their defenders, and climb up using ladders, to get to the Tribal Totem. Once the Battle actually begins, the Tribal totem starts with 100k "HP." If that HP drops to below 1000 (or any number to actually prevent pure destruction of the Totem, no sense in making it go poof) then the aggressors win the war. During this time, the Aggressor's Tribal Totem also has 100k HP. If the Defending Tribe can somehow figure out how to Destroy the Aggressor's Totem, the Defenders win.

If after 2 hours, both Totems still have greater then 1000HP, the defenders have successfully defended their lands, battle is over. Then, a new timer of 24 hours starts, preventing any other Declarations of War being placed on the Defending Tribe. They can still be Vulnerable however.

Now, what happens after the Battle is again up to Jooky. Whether it be the Totems transfer to the "winning" Tribe (to a Tribe that "destroyed" it), or the battle is just over, everyone departs after having a fun time, eh, I don't mind either way. I personally do not like the idea that Defenders can "win land" by successfully destroying the Aggressor's totem. Yes, the Aggressors could win the Defender's land in this way, however, if the Defenders defeat the Aggressor's totem, I think it should just destroy the totem, and the Aggressors effectively lose their "claimed land."

Now, have also thought that maybe the "Good/Neutral/Evil' status of the Tribes could be incorporated a little further. Good Tribes cannot Declare War on other Good Tribes. Evil Tribes however can Declare War on other Evil Tribes, they're Evil after all. Finally, Neutral Tribes cannot Declare War on any tribe other then those that are Neutral as well, but may have War Declared on them by either Good or Evil, one of the drawbacks of being Neutral. All of this of course depends first upon having "Vulnerability" turned on at the Tribal Totem.

Is up to Jooky again here for a couple options. If he wants Allies to be able to "help" each other, as in to allow other Tribes to also "join in" on either side of the fight. As in, to allow allies to build siege equipment to help. Only tribes who are set to Vulnerable will be able to harm the Defenders, and since the Agressors aren't on their Tribal Lands, well, they are open to be attacked by anyone, even if those types of attackers have not set themselves to Vulnerable. It could throw in some interesting things if an "Ally" of the defenders could also build siege equipment, over near the "Aggressors" land area, and commence attacks on their area while the Defenders are defending theirs. Takes the battle back to the Aggressors front door so to speak.

Edited to Add these additions:[/u]

You level "SiegeCraft" the same way as all the other crafts, however only during the 60 minute timer before a battle is to start can you actually build any. This system would then allow those Tribes that have more battle experience, to have someone within their Tribe know more Siege weapon patterns to build.

[willbonney]

Damn Xsyon, had another idea pop in my head before I'm capable of sleep.

How about instead of having "Land swapping," as in lands change hands on a win or lose, we take the focus off the land, and back on resources as it belongs, like this:

For a 2 hour period of time after either Totem is "beaten" (defender's or aggressor's) all structures are free for anyone to destroy and all "storage bins" are forced to the "public setting" allowing anyone to take from them. This allows for a period of time for "looting and pillaging" which is more along the lines of what I see this game as, not so much a territorial deal (your territory goes up as you grow bigger, not how well you can kill the little guy), but more about a struggle for resources. In this way, you can take your enemies resources, as well as their crafted stuff. Sure, leaves open the possibility for "poachers" but that's just your own fault if someone runs in and "steals your loot."

I like this idea. You don't need their land if you can take their stuff.

[byrgar]

Battle
One hour before the Battle commences, the Tribes are allowed to build siege weapons. These weapons can vary, as in, trebuchets, ballista's, pots of burning oil for the defenders, as well as battering rams, ladders, and those "rolling wooden towers" for the aggressors. Only during this 60 minutes can any siege engines be built. The Aggressors must build their siege engines at least 250m away from the border of the Defending tribes border. After that 60 minutes is up, no more siege engines can be built by either Tribe. This again makes things a bit easier for the Defenders, as the Aggressors will have to carry all their materials to a destination close to the Defending Tribe, to then build their engines. Leaves them open to be attacked, and lose those materials.

This part Im not sure about. Where did these Tribes get the plans to make Trebuchet's, Ballista, Mangonel's, etc etc? kind of lore breaking to just magically know how to make them, then forget again once the fight is over. If they were recipes/plans that could be learned, fair enough, but I would make it so you needed an Architect to learn one part, a woodcrafter to learn another part, and a weaponsmith to learn a part too, and have all three need to place items into the project to complete it, and if you want to declare war and go fight, and you have not learned them, and the other tribe has, well, thats just tough really.

The Battle starts, and the aggressors attempt to destroy the defenders walls, kill their defenders, and climb up using ladders, to get to the Tribal Totem. Once the Battle actually begins, the Tribal totem starts with 100k "HP." If that HP drops to below 1000 (or any number to actually prevent pure destruction of the Totem, no sense in making it go poof) then the aggressors win the war. During this time, the Aggressor's Tribal Totem also has 100k HP. If the Defending Tribe can somehow figure out how to Destroy the Aggressor's Totem, the Defenders win.

If after 2 hours, both Totems still have greater then 1000HP, the defenders have successfully defended their lands, battle is over. Then, a new timer of 24 hours starts, preventing any other Declarations of War being placed on the Defending Tribe. They can still be Vulnerable however.

Now, what happens after the Battle is again up to Jooky. Whether it be the Totems transfer to the "winning" Tribe (to a Tribe that "destroyed" it), or the battle is just over, everyone departs after having a fun time, eh, I don't mind either way. I personally do not like the idea that Defenders can "win land" by successfully destroying the Aggressor's totem. Yes, the Aggressors could win the Defender's land in this way, however, if the Defenders defeat the Aggressor's totem, I think it should just destroy the totem, and the Aggressors effectively lose their "claimed land."

Now, have also thought that maybe the "Good/Neutral/Evil' status of the Tribes could be incorporated a little further. Good Tribes cannot Declare War on other Good Tribes. Evil Tribes however can Declare War on other Evil Tribes, they're Evil after all. Finally, Neutral Tribes cannot Declare War on any tribe other then those that are Neutral as well, but may have War Declared on them by either Good or Evil, one of the drawbacks of being Neutral. All of this of course depends first upon having "Vulnerability" turned on at the Tribal Totem.

Is up to Jooky again here for a couple options. If he wants Allies to be able to "help" each other, as in to allow other Tribes to also "join in" on either side of the fight. As in, to allow allies to build siege equipment to help. Only tribes who are set to Vulnerable will be able to harm the Defenders, and since the Agressors aren't on their Tribal Lands, well, they are open to be attacked by anyone, even if those types of attackers have not set themselves to Vulnerable. It could throw in some interesting things if an "Ally" of the defenders could also build siege equipment, over near the "Aggressors" land area, and commence attacks on their area while the Defenders are defending theirs. Takes the battle back to the Aggressors front door so to speak.

Again, not sure about this either, yes, some PVPers would really like to be able to take the tribes land and claim it as their own, but what about PVPers that do not want to lose everything? what about Tribe's made up of PVPers and PVEers?
Me personally, I am looking to experience as much of the PVE as I can, help to build our Tribal land up, but also PVP as much as I can too, help defend what we have created, but I would not wish to force those in the Tribe that do not take part in the PVP to lose everything if we do not defend it and win.

Overall, some good idea's, and on the whole they do look to be better than anything else suggested so far, but as I pointed out, some parts Im not sure.

[willbonney]

Heh, the "siege" weapons would be more towards the "future" of the game bud. As in, when we've re-discovered some of our lost technologies. Read the reply to my own post right above yours for a Secondary suggestion to "winning", as instead of taking land, winners take your loots.

[willbonney]

Ah, now I see what you mean, I never said you'd "magically learn" and then "magically forget" the recipes. You could "learn" the recipes the same way as others, as in, practicing making others. However, only during this 60 minute timer (right before a battle), could you ever make them, and thus, learn new ones. Thus, the more battles you participate in, the possibility of having learned more siege weapons is there.

[byrgar]

Having the focus shift from taking land to resources / items is better, as there is incentive for people to attack, without making Tribes lose everything.
It could be the best solution, as each person would be limited as to what they could take as "pillage" or "spoils of war" due to encumberance.

I actually really like that idea.

[Atreyu]

Hmm interesting concept. But surely the declaring war button is daft, because while the aggressors are out of camp, any other tribe could trot along and kill the aggressors totem without the silly declaring war process. I also noticed you excessively use inverted comas in all your posts. Your starting to remind me of Dr Evil.

[JCatano]

Too scripted. A wardec and time value before the actual siege is the only thing I agree with. As much as you guys get butthurt about Darkfall, their siege system is pretty good.

Territory conquest should be a part of it. That keeps tribes dynamically moving around the map with a purpose. Your idea of just looting and pillaging could cause very stagnate gameplay.

FYI...

"Some players are imagining 'safe switches' that can be turned on and off. That's not part of any plan." - Xsyon