No risk to crafting, Needs Penalties

[fflhktsn]

No they are not always right, look at UO from what it was to what EA gave the wanting little gimmes. A person could have a good idea, but people are always stupid. For once devs need to stay true to their vision instead of trying to make one product fit the image of the entitlements

again you missed the point as to fit your argument

UO moved away from a sandbox, it got old, its audience changed and they were never a full frontal sandbox to begin with. they were close however.

if this game stuck to a true sandbox mentality, create the world and drop the people in it, a lot of people would flock to it, im not talking wow sized community, but several times its current following to say the least.

that is if this game doesnt turn into another MO, where all the features never make it and it gets stuck in alhpa stage for life.

[dxwarlock]

@fflhktsn

how about this, we all just play our way..see where the devs take it, and ride it and see where the destination ends up?

forum arguments aside, i have no ill will against you ingame, I see you need a basket or tool and I got and extra its yours.
inversely, you see me carrying a log, or fancy hat you particularly like outside my area and I have no mats to make one for you, come kill me and its yours

[fflhktsn]

so since my definition of how I want to play in a sandbox is different from yours, im not playing in the sandbox right?
Im making a castle on my side of the sandbox, your on the other side digging holes and playing with tonka trucks screaming "WTF you doing? its sand..people dig sand, move it around drive trucks thru it..you dont even know how to use this playground box of sand right...geez"

we are PvP vs PvE.
I want to stock the store with coke, you with pepsi..we will never agree. and both think the other is doing it wrong

why I was leaving...since getting you to see my point of
"well if its a sandbox, what if I dont want to have to hide so I dont die while taking a piss..give me my safe area"
and I cant see yours of "its a sandbox, I should be abel to kill you anywhere anyhow"

then is it truly a sandbox either way?
is its a sandbox if a PvE is forced into someone elses playstyle because they want to PvP inside thier totem? on the other hand, is it a sandbox if the PvPer cant attack anyone anywhere?

either side of out argument is biased towards what we want, BOTH pushing it away from sandbox gameplay..

the definition of a sandbox, at least a true sandbox is pretty standard, its because of how you want to play, which involves nullification of other peoples choices, that makes it incompatable with the sandbox idea.

you dont want a game where the community makes its own safe zones given the tools in game, you want that safe zone to be given to you by the developer.

you dont want the community to ban together to create safe havens for crafters, you want the game to punish pvpers

in a sadbox its not up to the game to decide its up the the people playing, to decide and the enact given the tools avaliable.

im not asking for them to inhibit your pve, just that your pve wishes dont inhibit my pvp...see how that works.

sandboxes provide you with the tools to do it all yourself, and not rely on a developer to code it in for you.

that is why you dont understand what a sandbox is, you think its the player deciding on the tools and mechanics, when they are really just left alone with said tools and mechanics and are able to do what they want with them, without game system interference.

[Yokilla]

you miss the part that said "AT FIRST THERE WILL BE SAFE ZONES, but he is considering allowing tribes to opt out earlier" the plan that has always been said was after prelude was over there wouldn't be safe zones. of course that plan can be changed but i have not heard the devs say differently yet. People are just misinterpreting what has been said recently just as you have.

The statements made by Notorious Game are unambigous and clear. Interpretaion is not necessary. At first safe zones everywhere. The begining area we have now out to the mist. Later that area may be allowed to opt out. Xsyon says he is still considering this option. Later zones will be added and the mist will get pushed back from the begining area. Some or all of the newly added zone(s) may entirely be free of safe zones--maybe not--he is going to watch the server population to determine our course. Later servers will not all have safe zones. I suspect--given enough clients--there will be servers like ours with a begining safe zone optional area. But maybe this will be the only server with safe zone guarenteed areas. That part is unlcear.
I haven't, by any means, read much of the threads in this forum. No where that I've read has said a word about revoking a tribe's option to remain safe in the original area the game launches with.

[fflhktsn]

@fflhktsn

how about this, we all just play our way..see where the devs take it, and ride it and see where the destination ends up?

forum arguments aside, i have no ill will against you ingame, I see you need a basket or tool and I got and extra its yours.
inversely, you see me carrying a log, or fancy hat you particularly like outside my area and I have no mats to make one for you, come kill me and its yours

cool i look forward to hunting you down like the carebear you are and fully looting you...possibly dropping dirt on your dead body as to inhibit you further...CHEERS!

[dxwarlock]

you dont want a game where the community makes its own safe zones given the tools in game, you want that safe zone to be given to you by the developer.

that is why you dont understand what a sandbox is, you think its the player deciding on the tools and mechanics, when they are really just left alone with said tools and mechanics and are able to do what they want with them, without game system interference.

no I nevre said that, All im asking for is whats there..for somewhat safe timeperiod so I can build my own safe haven..because even you had to admit if it was just dropped in, no way to get started safely..most would never be able to, as they would have people kicking down thier wall they started and stabbing them everytime they tried to move to a new spot and hide.

Im all for "drop us in the box, give us tools, and let us create what we need to survive" just saying we need some bit of safetynet to get started against those that will take the startup time..just running around stopping others from starting.

only element I was arguing with you about was that risk/vs needs to be level and static across the board for all actions, regardless of outcome. i think each needs its own different ratio..so a player can find the one hes comfortable with, but still feels that the reward aspect is worth it.

[fflhktsn]

no I nevre said that, All im asking for is whats there..for somewhat safe timeperiod so I can build my own safe haven..because even you had to admit if it was just dropped in, no way to get started safely..most would never be able to, as they would have people kicking down thier wall they started and stabbing them everytime they tried to move to a new spot and hide.

Im all for "drop us in the box, give us tools, and let us create what we need to survive" just saying we need some bit of safetynet to get started against those that will take the startup time..just running around stopping others from starting.

only element I was arguing with you about was that risk/vs needs to be level and static across the board for all actions, regardless of outcome. i think each needs its own different ratio..so a player can find the one hes comfortable with, but still feels that the reward aspect is worth it.

22 pages an im spent...whatever...hope you can carry a lot of dirt in game =D

[dxwarlock]

dont have 90str/agility for nothing...dragging logs all day slowly sucks..LOL

[Dade512]

I think it's funny that any time I see people talking about a game being a sandbox the primary idea that people have about what it should be is just running around killing whoever they want, whenever they want. As though the scope of their imagination is limited to just ganking, not pvp - actual "balanced" combat but just pk'ing - running around killing people you know can't really fight back.
And this, I think, is the primary reason the PvP vs. PvE discussion, if you can really call it that, will never be settled. The loudest voices for the "PvP" side want nothing but to kill the weaker players and crafters who won't fight back to take their stuff. Which, of course, sets off the weaker players and crafters. It's an endless cycle.

Also, this entire thread seems to be pointing directly to the solo-crafter. In 6-9 months it won't matter, on the assumption safe zones will in fact be removed. So for now, you have solo-players you can't get at. Big deal.

[dxwarlock]

22 pages an im spent...whatever...hope you can carry a lot of dirt in game =D

plus unless the patch/fix didnt work..wasnt that fixed in last patch?
Update February 22

Fixes

Swapping to soulbound items should be blocked.
Dropping dirt to dead players should be blocked.