From MO Forums - Devs, Crafters, PvPers read

[Toughluck]

--all they need to do is give us players the tools needed in which to regulate our own game, and stand back and let us play. like a sandbox should be --

I always love when PVP centric writer use this phrase. It is the griefer mantra. I totally disagree fflhkstn. This would ruin Xsyon. I do not trust people like the many recent PVP posters to do anything more than overtly grief every new player that enters the game. It is happening now and would only get worse. The good tribes would stop playing and the griefers and ganking guilds would destroy another game.

[Toughluck]

-repost-

[ifireallymust]

Makes me hope the junkpiles will go away when the first rush of building (including the building of fortifications, pvp/pkers!) is finished, it's true a game world full of people with no scarcity to worry about would get boring fast.

[orious13]

Ehh NPC guards and guard towers create safezones just as well as an actual safezone does imo. It's just a little hidden.

But back on topic...

Farewell posts that aren't whining are great. This one is constructive. If anyone ever tried Dawntide for a little bit, each individual crafted object had a separate proficiency. That's a good idea. Basically most mmos that are sandboxes start out with combat and end up only having combat as a goal. You have to admit that starting off with a REAL foundation seems to be a better choice.

[Silicor]

The OP is my hero... His vision is exactly what I want from a game.

I tried a tale in the desert for a little while and was totally amazed by the depth of the crafting and fabulous minigames. It just wasn't enough. Add a good combat system to that game and it would hit my sweet spot.

To me, this isn't about the right way to implement pvp in a world, its about creating a world where there are meaningful tasks and reasons to do things. Fighting over nothing gets boring in time and Crafting to create the same items as your neighbor gets boring fast... give us depth, rare resources and recipies, rare locations... make an investment in time in any vocation worth while so players get a sense of accomplishment. Otherwise, boredom sets in fast and players leave.

[Koll]

I am a member of Forsaken and used to play MO for about a year; the point that Thaeric was trying to say is that it is all a matter of balance; in a sandbox MMO; senseless pvp just doesnt make sense; There must be a reason to kill the other player other than just the joy of it otherwise it gets boring very fast;

Soon after its launch MO was quickly flooded by griefers and exploiters that sought to gain advantage by any means possible rather then playing the game; all they wanted was a quick easy victory. The worst part is that rather than making it more difficult for these people to grief SV made it easier by launching a succession of patches that OP skills and weapons and were bug ridden; soon everyone was using the same exploit and going for the same type of weapons made of the same type of mats.

After the dust of the battles settled down the griefers got bored and left the game; and the "carebears" left the game too bored that there was nothing new to craft other than the same type of spears etc. And there was no economy since everyone had access to the same stuff and there was no more new players coming in due to the "high griefing" rep the game had.

The Sandbox MMO needs to be built on its economy first before you turn the fight switch on. Its makes the game more enjoyable for everyone. Because then people will fight for territory, resources etc... not just as a bunch of psychopaths running around with knives in the woods. There are a lot of games that exist for those that need a fast gratification from a kill like Warband for instance. A Sandbox MMO should not be like that.

[Brutix]

good post by the OP. Do you guys think that any MMO developer will get the balance right? So far most MMO's are not balanced and the one that is(Eve) is boring as hell. I dunno I'm almost thinking that Blizzard is the only company that knows how to make MMO's. Hopefully their next one will be a sandbox.

[orious13]

The Sandbox MMO needs to be built on its economy first before you turn the fight switch on. Its makes the game more enjoyable for everyone. Because then people will fight for territory, resources etc... not just as a bunch of psychopaths running around with knives in the woods. There are a lot of games that exist for those that need a fast gratification from a kill like Warband for instance. A Sandbox MMO should not be like that.

Couldn't have said it better myself...

[Bridger]

Fighting over nothing gets boring in time and Crafting to create the same items as your neighbor gets boring fast... give us depth, rare resources and recipies, rare locations... make an investment in time in any vocation worth while so players get a sense of accomplishment. Otherwise, boredom sets in fast and players leave.

^^ This! ^^

[Bisjul]

good post by the OP. Do you guys think that any MMO developer will get the balance right? So far most MMO's are not balanced and the one that is(Eve) is boring as hell. I dunno I'm almost thinking that Blizzard is the only company that knows how to make MMO's. Hopefully their next one will be a sandbox.

Blizzard sucks.

'nuf said.

Edit: If Blizzard and their parent company decide to create a sandbox, then any hope for creative gameplay is moot.