Some of you are barking up the wrong tree...

[mindtrigger]

While I do not disagree with some of the people, such as crafters, who do not enjoy getting slaughtered, I think we need to get something clear. If you are expecting people to be nice to you out of the goodness of their hearts, forget it. What other players are doing that upsets you is exactly what this game's design allows them to do. You cannot expect anything more or less.

So where does this leave us? Notorious has handed you a game with a set of rules that you are stuck with, at least for now. Are they going for realism? In the real world after a global disaster, no one would care if you were a crafter, a low level noob, or a suckling child. They will kill you and take your stuff. They may even eat you and use your bones for weapons, armor and Lincoln Logs for their own children.

Seems to me there are only two options (or a combination of both):

1) Notorious starts coding in some safety mechanisms to make things easier for players not interested in combat.
2) The game community comes together and figures out a way to deal with this as best they can within the construct of the game play mechanics.

We know that #1 will work, but it will also start restricting the game in ways we may not even understand yet. Some trade off may be ok here, but only testing will tell. #2 is a serious wildcard because basically the only option we have is to "police" each other with our own combat players. This will require a lot of effort, and would likely end up being a gameplay style that would take up most of people's play time. Basically they have to become military or police players that spend all of their time working that aspect of the game.

The bottom line is that complaining about these things isn't going to accomplish anything. Players are not going to play by your version of the rules when the game allows them to do anything they want, more or less. Understand that there is a fairly large chunk of the gaming population that gets off on griefing and being bullies for no other reason than Mommy and Daddy didn't hug them enough. They are the same people who have little sense of values in the real world, or they are cowards who like to e-bully because they have no strength (of any kind) in the real world. They exist, and you have to game with them.

I suspect in the end if Notorious doesn't plan to deal with this through gameplay mechanics, the game will suffer the loss of players who are more interested in community building (crafting, medicine, social, political, etc) and the game will devolve into a PvP-fest until everyone gets sick of it and leaves. Real longevity in a sandbox game relies on a nice balance of everything so that it pulls in a diverse player base. I personally do not believe player policing will work to any degree that will make people happy. It simply requires some to take on a huge responsibility and trade actual game time for a second job.

Thoughts?

** EDIT FOR CLARITY ON THE PVP ISSUE: I am not saying PvP is bad. I enjoy it myself. The people I am ripping on above are the griefers who simply play the way they do to irritate others. You are welcome to disagree, but I think they suck. I also understand that what constitutes 'griefing' is subjective. Those of you who are looking for a PvE only game are in the wrong place.

[mindtrigger]

In addition, I wouldn't even say combat is this game's strong point as it exists today. I'm surprised it's even attracting PvP players, although as mentioned above, some people just like to see what they can get away with, and they don't mind walking on everyone else in the process. That is their choice, as long as they aren't exploiting the game with real cheats (not your moral idea of 'cheats').

[shadowlz]

In the real world after a global disaster, no one would care if you were a crafter, a low level noob, or a suckling child. They will kill you and take your stuff. They may even eat you and use your bones for weapons, armor and Lincoln Logs...

Damn, sounds like reavers! Back to the ship!

[mindtrigger]

Damn, sounds like reavers! Back to the ship!

You aren't in danger of actually contributing to the discussion here...are you?

[kombi]

There may even be tribes out there with a military / mercanary stand point open to offers of supplies for protection...

[MrKrueak]

honestly i'm not worried about it anymore, i can pvp with the best of them just wanted to try something different in a game that is feature as being different so i was planning on going the crafting route, but will go the combat route and give back my contribution in the form of an axe instead of a shovel.

[santoclawz]

i read your thread and considered is seriously until you wrote

"The bottom line is that complaining about these things isn't going to accomplish anything. Players are not going to play by your version of the rules when the game allows them to do anything they want, more or less. Understand that there is a fairly large chunk of the gaming population that gets off on griefing and being bullies for no other reason than Mommy and Daddy didn't hug them enough. They are the same people who have little sense of values in the real world, or they are cowards who like to e-bully because they have no strength (of any kind) in the real world. They exist, and you have to game with them."

I hate when people do that generalize, demonize, and make assumptions about a subgroup of players they do not agree with. I see it in almost every thread i read pvp'rs explaining why they kill who they kill, ive seen good legitimate reasons given and also funny reasons given. I am not an "active" pk'er but i do like to pvp and what all these pve and crafter ONLY people need to realize is 90% of the time people arent pvping to ruin your day.... they do it because its fun to them thats why they play games, which by the way is as good a reason to play a game as crafting or role-playing or whatever reason anyone else plays the game.

What i really dont understand though is why the people who dont like to pvp or pk have such a sense of elitism, they assume anyone who pvp's IN A VIDEO GAME is weak or a child or sucks at life.... I mean really mindtrigger do you honestly believe that people who pvp really didnt get enough hugs as a kid.... that has to be the most ignorant statement i think i have yet to read on these forums, but it is right there with all the people who dont like pvp calling pvpers kids and children.

grow up.

[fflhktsn]

Yup, in a sandbox where the players are given all the tools needed to fight off gankers and griefers, the pve crowd will choose to cry to the developers for saftey mechanism built into the game to do it for them

Honestly i dare the developers to create said saftey mechanisms to chase away the pvp crowd, who needs them right? They just ruin the game for the pve crowd...

How dare we play the game as we see fit and not choose the carebear "i want in game protection i dont want to have to make friends with combat character who have nothing better to do than protect me"

I agree, i think i would just be easyer just to add in arena pvp, mabey some insant battlegrounds, and keep pvp out of the world. worked really well for other games.

They could also drop the sandbox title and switch it to sim/real life.

Im so sick of these suggestions that the awnswer to the "pvp problem" a problem that has NEVER existed in the game, is to creat mechanisms coded into the game to thwart peoples playstyle choice. "Dont force your pvp on me" is the battle cry of the pve crowd, and to do so they want to force pve on us as the only entertaining and viable path.

i digress...perhaps this isnt and shouldnt be a game for us pvp interested folks, there are plenty of actual sandbox pvp games out there right, well mabey 3...in a sea of games with consensual pvp.

so bring on the arnenas and battlegrounds, lets keep pvp from ruining the pve only crowds game. honestly i wouldnt care at this point as long as the game was playable.

[mindtrigger]

Item decay and the ability to loot those killed in PvP are a crafter's best friends, since both create a market for their goods. It's a symbiotic relationship, there are just some people who don't step back enough to see past their own prejudice.

Well, you are welcome to your opinion. I haven't been playing and don't plan to until they announce the final wipe, but judging by the number of posts on this particular topic, I would say it's important. You may not agree, but that doesn't mean there is not a problem that needs to be addressed. As I said above, "community" players will leave, and all that will be left is the PvP group who leaves games as fast as they join them. The thing about sandbox games it that they need a well balanced and fair system to start with in order to pull and keep a nice well rounded player base. The social and communal players (including PvE) are more important that PvP players in this type of game, IMO. PvP bring a great element of excitement and chaos, but they shouldn't be overruning all the other aspects of the game.

[mindtrigger]

i read your thread and considered is seriously until you wrote

"The bottom line is that complaining about these things isn't going to accomplish anything. Players are not going to play by your version of the rules when the game allows them to do anything they want, more or less. Understand that there is a fairly large chunk of the gaming population that gets off on griefing and being bullies for no other reason than Mommy and Daddy didn't hug them enough. They are the same people who have little sense of values in the real world, or they are cowards who like to e-bully because they have no strength (of any kind) in the real world. They exist, and you have to game with them."

I hate when people do that generalize, demonize, and make assumptions about a subgroup of players they do not agree with. I see it in almost every thread i read pvp'rs explaining why they kill who they kill, ive seen good legitimate reasons given and also funny reasons given. I am not an "active" pk'er but i do like to pvp and what all these pve and crafter ONLY people need to realize is 90% of the time people arent pvping to ruin your day.... they do it because its fun to them thats why they play games, which by the way is as good a reason to play a game as crafting or role-playing or whatever reason anyone else plays the game.

What i really dont understand though is why the people who dont like to pvp or pk have such a sense of elitism, they assume anyone who pvp's IN A VIDEO GAME is weak or a child or sucks at life.... I mean really mindtrigger do you honestly believe that people who pvp really didnt get enough hugs as a kid.... that has to be the most ignorant statement i think i have yet to read on these forums, but it is right there with all the people who dont like pvp calling pvpers kids and children.

grow up.

I'm not addressing those people who enjoy good PvP. I'm addressing the ones who like to grief others non-stop. If you couldn't extrapolate that from my post, I'm sorry. I will edit it and make sure it is more clear.