Starting an Economy of some sort...

[XeoStyle]

that sounds retarded.

No shit sherlock

[Plague]

Laugh at it but this will happen if Xsyon survives months of stable gameplay. But I think it will not be money as money has no value around lake Tahoe. It will be something hard to obtain but very usefull, like nails for example. I would rather trade something for nails then for money that never had true value (not even now, its worth only paper its printed on minus interesst you own on it to your central bank).

Economy will evolve, nails, small bones, bear brains... Not paper that can not even be used as toilet paper.

[Andius]

I would rather trade in beer tabs and bottle caps.

Anyway I have thought about this but the reason this wouldn't work is these currencies are not backed anything (Like the dollar is backed by the US government etc.), and have no real value themselves. By using them as a currency we are giving people who have access to these items the right to get nothing for something.

What it would take to start a currency is:

A. An item that is of real value itself, light or valuable enough it can be carried in large quantities but still be broken down into small units if the transaction is small. Some possible in-game items like this might be certain food items like fish, berries, and herbs. Or things like nails bolts and skrews. A real world example would be gold. Gold is not valuable because of any backing by countries. Its valuable because it is a beautiful, rare, and extremely non-reactive metal. Since it is non-reactive it can be used for items of lasting beauty unlike iron which rusts.

B. Any form of exchange backed by some very major parties. If some of the larger tribes across the server were to start accepting dollars or beer tabs or... pants, as payment for their goods and services, it would give these items value as once people had these items they could trade them with these parties for whatever they want. I mean you would take dollars as a form of currency if you knew you could go to Aegis or Animal Crackers, or one of the other major tribes and buy the saw you need for 300 dollars wouldn't you?

The problem with Plan B is until dollars became a universally accepted currency the tribes who took part in this would be losing money hand over fist. They would be accepting dollars that are worth nothing in exchange for real valuable items and services. And they don't even have control of the printing press. Imagine I am leading a 100 man tribe and I make it tribe policy that we will accept dollars as currency along with 10 other major tribes. What would you do? I would start scavenging more as I would get a ton of recipes and truly valuable items already, and now the worthless dollars I am finding have real value. The rate of dollars flowing onto the market would be insane and since they are passed from hand to hand instead of discarded after they are used, the amount of them on the market would be huge, and constantly growing. Meaning insane inflation rates. The saw that was 300 dollars today would be 600 dollars next week.

Perhaps a valid plan C would be for tribes to be able to make their own unique forms of currencies that only their leader can make. So that one Aegis trading shell would be backed by the economy and trustworthiness of Aegis and one Animal Cracker cookie would be backed by the economy and trustworthiness of Animal Crackers. People could assign them values based on how much they trust those tribes. I think a tribe doing this might eat costs a little in the beginning, but if they established themselves as a reliable tribe that can back their money, and that won't just create more of it every time they want to buy something, it could work. I know if I was trying to run a tribe that wanted its own currency. I would give handouts of my money in the beginning to get it out there on the market, and promise to honor that money if they bring it back to me and try to trade. When people started bringing it back, I would honor my promises and thus establish worth to my money. Then I print it at a rate that won't devalue it, but would just get enough out there that everyone wanting to use it could. Possibly doing this by printing money for people who bring me saw blades, nails, or some other item of value, and then hoarding those items to help back the currency. (Like Fort Knox.)

[Morketh]

How bout we worry about this after we find out how long it is going to take for the lag to end.. then after that we can see how many people are still playing then maybe we can think of some sort of trading system.

[Andius]

Because this is really interesting. The idea of tribes having the ability to create their own currencies. Its so realistic... it would be an amazing experiment in real world economics. Its possibilities like this that make me willing to suffer through this lag.

[darg75]

I think the most interesting question is; why did they put dollars and pennies (and bottle lids) into the game to begin with?

Surely the placement of these is a social experiment?

[Ceronic]

Yes use bottle caps as coins, then i will be wealthy

[Andius]

Its surely a failed experiment though. There is nothing to back these currencies so no one will accept them. But if they allowed the creation of tribal currencies I would start releasing my own item back currency onto the market tonight. With a game focusing on giving all the power to the players instead of NPCs, player backed currencies would be a unique, logical, and highly interesting way to do things. I'm really, really, excited about the possibilities of this idea.

[XeoStyle]

Because this is really interesting. The idea of tribes having the ability to create their own currencies. Its so realistic... it would be an amazing experiment in real world economics. Its possibilities like this that make me willing to suffer through this lag.

Yeah.... lets trade nails and grasspants on the stockexchange in irl ^^... Sounds like a pretty bad idea dude

[Andius]

Money DOES have meaning though. The way paper money started out were certificates entitling you to however much of a currency of real worth. Mainly gold. So when I would trade you a piece of paper currency it would mean, you can take this piece of paper to whoever issued it, and they will give you that much gold. Likewise our own currency is, or at least was backed in gold originally:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._States_dollar

So why would we accept dollars knowing that the United States no longer exists, is no longer backing these notes, and that dollars are produced by randomly scavenging around, and have no real value in themselves?

What is REALISTIC about what I want to do is that tribes are the new governments. They are the only holders of power, the only law, the only ones who can give a currency value in this game. If they could print their own money they could do EXACTLY what the original makers of paper currency did. I could release a currency of my own and say. "If you bring this currency back to me, it is backed in various items of real worth like leather, fabric, nails, etc. Give me the note and I'll give you its value in real items." What gives that currency advantage over the actual items themselves, is it is light, easy to carry in large quantities, and has obvious value.

Why is this such a big deal? Well because as the system stands. If I want to give you something of value, you either need to directly need it, or go out and find someone who needs the exact item you were paid with. Where as a currency has a huge advantage in that once its circulation gets wide enough, people will accept it as payment for any item, because they know they can go and trade it to someone else who will accept it. You may not actually need any of the items backing my currency, or whatever tribes currency, but if you know all your neighbors or some very powerful tribes will accept that currency in exchange for items you do need, then it is very useful.

Obviously that gives currency a greater use than the barter system in itself but now I want you to consider some community events things that can enhance people's game experience:

Bounty hunting and mercenary contracts
Lotteries and raffles
Tournaments and contests

Are you going to go and custom make a bunch of items the winner will want? What is the price you put on someone's head going to be measured with? Are you going to accept any random item as entry into the raffle?

In every other game the currency has value because you can use it to buy things. Items from NPCs, player owned housing, skills, armor repairs, etc. It has real value. Here EVERYTHING is backed by the players. Why not give the players control of the printing presses, and what kind of currencies they want to use?

Added after 13 minutes:

Yeah.... lets trade nails and grasspants on the stockexchange in irl ^^... Sounds like a pretty bad idea dude

I didn't say current world economics I said real world economics. But I'm not saying items like the items in this game have real world value. In the real world I would back a currency in silver and/or gold. Those items don't exist/wouldn't have the same value as they do in real life in Xsyon so in Xsyon you would have to back it with other things.

What does make it an amazing experiment in real world economics both past and current is how the tribes will be able to make their own currency like a real world government. They will have control of the printing press and have to decide how to use it. Its like shoving a ton of little tiny governments all on the land surrounding one big lake. Which currencies will rise to the top? Which will fail? Will tribes back all their currency in items or will they just make more currency without backing it with anything? Will they honor their promises they make, or will they build up a huge reserve and then dump the currency altogether. Will tribes come together to back a single currency like the Xsyon version of the Euro. Will one tribes currency be accepted almost everywhere like the US dollar?

Of course things will be different because this is a game, and games are different from real life, but it will still be an interesting experiment that could help yield some answers about real world economics.