The Switch - Lessons from another game

[Dubanka]

yeah if you could
- track trade statistics between tribes (i see that being a pita to code)
- restrict 'invuln' tribes from trading with 'warring' tribes...trading with a warring tribe flips their switch (of course this is worked around by throw away mule toons)

of course the best fix is just not to having to worrying about fixing the possible exploits...because it's not in game

[orious13]

yeah if you could
- track trade statistics between tribes (i see that being a pita to code)
- restrict 'invuln' tribes from trading with 'warring' tribes...trading with a warring tribe flips their switch (of course this is worked around by throw away mule toons)

of course the best fix is just not to having to worrying about fixing the possible exploits...because it's not in game

A bitch to code and probably would really effect the server saves in some way.
You could have every character include 1 more array of data that tracks individual player trade alignment. If you only track alignment while in a tribe, people will just exit to trade and then rejoin in a few hours.

[mrcalhou]

Dub, I agree that it's not perfect, and I still don't get Xsyon's insistence on mutalism for warfare, but I do think it's a good comprimise with other zones being opened up as non-safe. I honestly wouldn't mind him extending the safe zones to be some of the land between tribal zones when new, conquerable, areas open up.

At least with the way it is now, players could stalk the crafting alts. That's what I see happening: People are going to mostly focus on cutting off the tribes supply by harrasing the workers (and I mean this like how it's done in an RTS; not as greifing), and they're going to need escorts or something. I really don't think it'll be too bad.

[Dubanka]

Dub, I agree that it's not perfect, and I still don't get Xsyon's insistence on mutalism for warfare, but I do think it's a good comprimise with other zones being opened up as non-safe. I honestly wouldn't mind him extending the safe zones to be some of the land between tribal zones when new, conquerable, areas open up.

At least with the way it is now, players could stalk the crafting alts. That's what I see happening: People are going to mostly focus on cutting off the tribes supply by harrasing the workers (and I mean this like how it's done in an RTS; not as greifing), and they're going to need escorts or something. I really don't think it'll be too bad.

'stalking the crafter alt' - this is actually a really dangers concept for gameplay. when the game gets to the point that we assume every little craft town is someones little arms factory, we really do start closing the door on the little guy.

what's the outcry gonna be when big country's band of wild men take a scorched earth policy on 'independent' trader villagers because Hopi's crafting operations went underground after they flipped their switch (name's just used for example purposes...no flameage intended)? You throw out a big net, yeah you'll get the tuna you were after, but you're also going to kill some dolphins and turtles in the process (TURTLES!11! oh the Horror).

to reiterate...we need to see what the incentives are to go read.
if we're going to have a switch, there needs to be a large benefit to keeping your logistics in house...we need this from an accountability standpoint.

[jokhul]

<snip>
to reiterate...we need to see what the incentives are to go read.
if we're going to have a switch, there needs to be a large benefit to keeping your logistics in house...we need this from an accountability standpoint.

Bad idea in that form, because you'd be removing the possibility of legitimate trade from the game.

What if a certain tribe want to setup as suppliers of armour to whomever wants to buy ?

Besides, your entire premise is faulty, lol. The alignment system is designed to PUNISH reds, not to reward them

[yoori]

'stalking the crafter alt' - this is actually a really dangers concept for gameplay. when the game gets to the point that we assume every little craft town is someones little arms factory, we really do start closing the door on the little guy.

what's the outcry gonna be when big country's band of wild men take a scorched earth policy on 'independent' trader villagers because Hopi's crafting operations went underground after they flipped their switch (name's just used for example purposes...no flameage intended)? You throw out a big net, yeah you'll get the tuna you were after, but you're also going to kill some dolphins and turtles in the process (TURTLES!11! oh the Horror).

to reiterate...we need to see what the incentives are to go read.
if we're going to have a switch, there needs to be a large benefit to keeping your logistics in house...we need this from an accountability standpoint.

Goods have to be transported, hit the transport, not the crafter. Plant a spy in enemy camp. If a village is right next to your enemy you can be pretty sure it's a factory.

We know there are ganna be "not safe" zones, not warring tribes shouldn't be able to plant totems there, there should be most valuable resources.
It's an advatnage for going war and you have to make choice transport resources to crafters or craft there.

[Marcus]

Do you need two accounts?

You could just make a war tribe, and a crafter tribe, and jump between the two as needed (/gquit).....

not easier, but cheaper..... and fixxed with a timer on joining tribes after quitting

edit... thinking the alignment system could throw a wrench into this thought, i'll have to check...

[mrcalhou]

I wrote something in suggestions that I think would help balance it for everyone involved.

[Doc]

'stalking the crafter alt' - this is actually a really dangers concept for gameplay. when the game gets to the point that we assume every little craft town is someones little arms factory, we really do start closing the door on the little guy.

what's the outcry gonna be when big country's band of wild men take a scorched earth policy on 'independent' trader villagers because Hopi's crafting operations went underground after they flipped their switch (name's just used for example purposes...no flameage intended)? You throw out a big net, yeah you'll get the tuna you were after, but you're also going to kill some dolphins and turtles in the process (TURTLES!11! oh the Horror).

to reiterate...we need to see what the incentives are to go read.
if we're going to have a switch, there needs to be a large benefit to keeping your logistics in house...we need this from an accountability standpoint.

So, "when the game gets to the point that we assume every little craft town is someones little arms factory" all small tribes/homesteads will be conquered and vanish from the face of Xsyon just because of your paranoia. No.

Incentives to go red? What are you smoking?

[Dubanka]

So, "when the game gets to the point that we assume every little craft town is someones little arms factory" all small tribes/homesteads will be conquered and vanish from the face of Xsyon just because of your paranoia. No.

Incentives to go red? What are you smoking?

Read the whole post, it wasn't that long.

if we're going to have a switch, there needs to be a large benefit to keeping your logistics in house...we need this from an accountability standpoint.

If you don't want every homestead crafter living under the assumption they are someone's alt equipment factory, we need the game to make that clear. ie. Why would you split off your logistics, it's stupid, because then you don't get x, y, z benefits.
Currently there is no benefit to crafting within tribe, as compared to doing so from an anon homestead alt. When you are able to reduce your risk by decentralizing your operations, this is is gameplay problem.

You want your playerbase to build up, to fortify, to have a desire to defend. This makes warefare matter,and something that is not engaged in lightly. Without the incentive to do this, players will seek to mitigate their risk, which means decentralizing their support activities to 'random' homestead operations that are protected. This is bad.