PvP with extreme consequences: Would you enjoy it?

[wolfmoonstrike]

We can't be sure of that. The most readily violent and dangerous citizens are the youngest, that's why, in some ways, children make such good soldiers. Turn a child into a killer at the age of 8, and he or she has no moral compass, or not much of one, and can readily learn to delight in cruelty.

Because of this, we cannot really, as adults, separate 'natural' morality (which after all would have to be encoded in our DNA or simply not exist) from conditioned morality.

I resisted this for decades, and I doubt anyone is more unhappy about it than I am. But logic and reason indicate to me that this, however unpleasant, is the truth.

You bring up a nice point about the child soldiers. Though we can never truly understand the human mind, at least IMO. We are multifaceted, able to be so cruel and yet able to be so kind. Though we kind of derailed our topic here lol. Extreme consequences...was the original topic, yes?

[river111]

If my mind still is true to me, a while back on the features for this game there was a little blurb about how certain damage you took effected your life later on. If you broke your leg multiple times you might have a slightly lower walk/run speed. If you got your head beat on by a baseball bat repeatedly over several years you might just turn into a drooling idiot. (my example there).

This is what I would like to see as a side effect of PvP combat. If you are constantly out fighting, getting smacked with a shovel, cut with a dagger, hacked with an axe, eventually it will take its toll on you. Stats and abilities shoudl reflect what you have done with your life.

Someone who spends all thier time chopping trees and carrying logs is like a fitness trainee and his strength should go up. His movement speed shoudl probably go down as he ages though since carrying 20 foot logs on your back every day just isn't good for your knees.

This should also apply to the PvPers. If the combat system does in fact determine damage by location hit, and armor worn on that location, then there should also be a record of how many times you got hit in a part of the body over time. If you get hit in the left arm 200 times over 2 years while you have been fighting, then your left arm should get a penalty on your combat when using it. If it shows you got hit in the head 200 times in that same 2 years then you should have lost a few points of intelligence, maybe your draw distance gets reduced as well from eye site problems.

Sure, you may become stronger, more dextrous, more combat affluent, but you did get stabbed 638 times already too, and that has to count for something.

[ifireallymust]

If my mind still is true to me, a while back on the features for this game there was a little blurb about how certain damage you took effected your life later on. If you broke your leg multiple times you might have a slightly lower walk/run speed. If you got your head beat on by a baseball bat repeatedly over several years you might just turn into a drooling idiot. (my example there).

This is what I would like to see as a side effect of PvP combat. If you are constantly out fighting, getting smacked with a shovel, cut with a dagger, hacked with an axe, eventually it will take its toll on you. Stats and abilities shoudl reflect what you have done with your life.

Someone who spends all thier time chopping trees and carrying logs is like a fitness trainee and his strength should go up. His movement speed shoudl probably go down as he ages though since carrying 20 foot logs on your back every day just isn't good for your knees.

This should also apply to the PvPers. If the combat system does in fact determine damage by location hit, and armor worn on that location, then there should also be a record of how many times you got hit in a part of the body over time. If you get hit in the left arm 200 times over 2 years while you have been fighting, then your left arm should get a penalty on your combat when using it. If it shows you got hit in the head 200 times in that same 2 years then you should have lost a few points of intelligence, maybe your draw distance gets reduced as well from eye site problems.

Sure, you may become stronger, more dextrous, more combat affluent, but you did get stabbed 638 times already too, and that has to count for something.

Logging is pretty dangerous work. If you do something dangerous while tired, hungry, or thirsty, I think there should be a chance of an accident, with permanent injury as a consequence as well. Maybe that is a good compromise with the pvper's view. Since I did derail things a bit, I'll try to put it back on track.

But humans are still evil.

[pendergraft]

Yes but humans have a way of detaching themselves from their dominant personality. Also humans have dual natures about them; even the best person can have some of the worst thoughts. If we weren't capable of playing a role more evil than ourselves their would not be actors. So while our actions in RL are different in a fictional world it does not mean those people are w/o morals.

An actor goes by a script. A video game roleplayer, on the other hand, is guided by something a little more innate. If a player who covets the belongings of another player acts upon his desire, it comes at the expense of the other person. An actor in the same position is not stealing; there is nothing to steal. It does not come at the expense of the other actor because her belongings are props made by the art department -- which is where they are returned at the end of the shoot.

In Xsyon, player effort equals productivity. To take what they produce is summarily immoral and should induce within a morally upright individual disgust, no matter the medium.

In regards to the duality of man, you are correct. A volunteer firefighter comes home at night and masturbates to images of abused puppies, or logs into Xsyon and rampages across the countryside leaving a slew of dead innocents in his bloody wake. It doesn't make his actions any less immoral.

[Lerxst]

This question is mainly for the PvP / conquest crowd:

Would you still enjoy unrestricted PvP if it had extreme consequences for all players, like perma death and settlements getting completely burned to the ground? Or do you think this gets in the way of having "fun" by simply running around and fighting each other?

The basic concept is simple: Realism. There are barely any restrictions at all, but the game mechanics make sure that war and violence are just as devastating as in RL. If you go to war, you'll probably get killed sooner or later, and that was that. Two tribes escalating war might completely wipe each other off the map. Naturally, you should really really know what you're doing when starting a fight, or your PvP-fun will be kinda short-lived. This is also how the amount of wars and crime is balanced: It's very risky and only pays off in certain situations. Well, you get the idea.


A little background:
I made this poll a while ago, suggesting a similar system of extreme consequences used by Haven & Hearth and Salem. Apparently, most players didn't like it much, but few posted their reasons. Also, all the confusion about Xyson's PvP rendered the poll kinda invalid anyway...
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...uot-Salem-quot

Read my past post on "Necessary evils". The Internet is full of ass-hats who will abuse any system they're given. How would you feel if your 8 month old character got "noob ganked" by 5 naked guys running around wearing nothing but their fists. Time they invest - 10 minutes vs time you invest - 8 months.

[river111]

Logging is pretty dangerous work. If you do something dangerous while tired, hungry, or thirsty, I think there should be a chance of an accident, with permanent injury as a consequence as well. Maybe that is a good compromise with the pvper's view. Since I did derail things a bit, I'll try to put it back on track.

But humans are still evil.

I agree, and my point was the penalty should be realistic and equal no matter the characters chosen path, but it should accurately reflect that path that was chosen. Keep in mind, a PvPer would most likely have the same long term effects as a PvE hunter, the prey may be different but being smacked around is still being smacked around. If it comes from an aluminum basball bat of the paw of a 400lb grizzly it doesn't matter does it?

And yeah, I could see a risk factor in crafting as well depending on how well you maintain your food/drink/energy levels while your crafting. That guy who spends hour after hour terraforming with just an occasional sleep and no water should be at risk while he is digging holes. THis also should apply to everyone though equally. If you let your health go under then you should get sick or injured from it.

The important thing though is that cause and effect should be in game. It really is enough of a detriment to the PvPer if you consider what they chose to do every day. A PvPer who is out getting into 30-40 fights a day, against weapons of all sorts, dieing over and over from mortal wounds, will see eneough detriment over thier life to warrant the risk people want for it. I dont care how you try and smooth it over, in the end, when a pit fighter is old, they are all bent over and half crippled from what they have dome to thier bodies over the years. There should be no reason that can't be happening here as well.

And those who think this is just for PvPers its not. Your targets are not always other like minded PvPers, those PvEers who get ganked occasionally will see the same effects as they age dependant on how many times they get killed or fight back. So its an equal opportunity penalty to everyone.

Read my past post on "Necessary evils". The Internet is full of ass-hats who will abuse any system they're given. How would you feel if your 8 month old character got "noob ganked" by 5 naked guys running around wearing nothing but their fists. Time they invest - 10 minutes vs time you invest - 8 months.

Oh and on this, yes but this is already something Jordi is looking into. Giving those 10 minute reroll naked gankers a serious disadvantage in combat against people who have the 8 months in. If those 5 still can't kill the one you what diffeence does it make if they are there or not.

Hopefully he gets this in and working soon, honestly think it needs to be. Wont help a lot of people for the first month, but as time goes on it will significantly deter this behavior.

[wolfmoonstrike]

Read my past post on "Necessary evils". The Internet is full of ass-hats who will abuse any system they're given. How would you feel if your 8 month old character got "noob ganked" by 5 naked guys running around wearing nothing but their fists. Time they invest - 10 minutes vs time you invest - 8 months.

Sad but true. Their just needs to be a consequence that is big enough to deter such things but not so harsh that people quit. I still think a serious semi-perma skill loss upon death would be the best idea. Like when you die you lose 25% of your total skill. This would also mean that having better skills/gear would allow you to kill 10 of those little naked bastards. It would also mean the crafters would have to hire mercs and come out clothed if they wanted to protect their skills.

[wolfmoonstrike]

I agree, and my point was the penalty should be realistic and equal no matter the characters chosen path, but it should accurately reflect that path that was chosen. Keep in mind, a PvPer would most likely have the same long term effects as a PvE hunter, the prey may be different but being smacked around is still being smacked around. If it comes from an aluminum basball bat of the paw of a 400lb grizzly it doesn't matter does it?

And yeah, I could see a risk factor in crafting as well depending on how well you maintain your food/drink/energy levels while your crafting. That guy who spends hour after hour terraforming with just an occasional sleep and no water should be at risk while he is digging holes. THis also should apply to everyone though equally. If you let your health go under then you should get sick or injured from it.

The important thing though is that cause and effect should be in game. It really is enough of a detriment to the PvPer if you consider what they chose to do every day. A PvPer who is out getting into 30-40 fights a day, against weapons of all sorts, dieing over and over from mortal wounds, will see eneough detriment over thier life to warrant the risk people want for it. I dont care how you try and smooth it over, in the end, when a pit fighter is old, they are all bent over and half crippled from what they have dome to thier bodies over the years. There should be no reason that can't be happening here as well.

And those who think this is just for PvPers its not. Your targets are not always other like minded PvPers, those PvEers who get ganked occasionally will see the same effects as they age dependant on how many times they get killed or fight back. So its an equal opportunity penalty to everyone.

I like this but I also believe their should be a small reincarnation/descendant thing for when you live long enough so you can recreate your character with some of your skills. Kinda like you remembered from a past life or you were trained by your father/mother. I mean there is a certain point that if you're that crippled it would be best to just start over but I don't believe that a person should lose years of their hardwork (which it would be by the time you're that old) completely. So at that point push maybe the reincarnation button or have a kid with the opposite gender, so you can save your name if you want and maybe carry over some kind of bonus.