PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

[Jadzia]

necoo wrote:
[quote]Jadzia wrote:

you are a fool, who does not understand the implications of what you speak. How many thousands of people do you think would be out of the job without crime, how many millions. and not everything should be handled with consideration to the law. the laws that are made to protect us can vary well get in our way.

would you really stand ideally by wile you and your family are forced out of a home live on the streets with no food as you die in your own filth just because you want to be considerate to the law. do you really have such a strong will to bare with the grief and agony of the loss of everything and the death of all you love just because you didn't want to commit a crime.... not everyone has such a strong will, as for me i would kill without hesitation if the situation ever arises... not that it has

Those people would get a better job in a better word. What I really hope is that you are young...probably a teenager...thinking like this if you were an adult really showed problems. Everyone has a choice...the situation to die or to kill only happens when someone is threatening you with a weapon. Naturally you have the right to defend yourself and your family. But you don't have the right to take someone's life to fill your needs. If you think that you have the right for that then you are on the best way to finish your life in a jail.

[necoo]

Jadzia wrote:
[quote]necoo wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

you are a fool, who does not understand the implications of what you speak. How many thousands of people do you think would be out of the job without crime, how many millions. and not everything should be handled with consideration to the law. the laws that are made to protect us can vary well get in our way.

would you really stand ideally by wile you and your family are forced out of a home live on the streets with no food as you die in your own filth just because you want to be considerate to the law. do you really have such a strong will to bare with the grief and agony of the loss of everything and the death of all you love just because you didn't want to commit a crime.... not everyone has such a strong will, as for me i would kill without hesitation if the situation ever arises... not that it has

Those people would get a better job in a better word. What I really hope is that you are young...probably a teenager...thinking like this if you were an adult really showed problems. Everyone has a choice...the situation to die or to kill only happens when someone is threatening you with a weapon. Naturally you have the right to defend yourself and your family. But you don't have the right to take someone's life to fill your needs. If you think that you have the right for that then you are on the best way to finish your life in a jail.

these people would not get better jobs because there wouldn't be enough jobs to go around which is the stem of most crime to begin with...if you really want such a utopia there would have to be at least 4 billion less people in the world to share everything with and have plenty of jobs to go around... and of course everyone wants a utopia there is just too many people for such and ideal to become a reality

[Jadzia]

necoo wrote:

these people would not get better jobs because there wouldn't be enough jobs to go around which is the stem of most crime to begin with...if you really want such a utopia there would have to be at least 4 billion less people in the world to share everything with and have plenty of jobs to go around... and of course everyone wants a utopia there is just too many people for such and ideal to become a reality

My last post before I'm off to bed 4 billion less people ? There are 6 billion people in the world now, if you take out 4 billions we're gonna have an empty planet. This planet can feed 6 billion people without problem, lol farmers in Europe get paid NOT to graw corn and wheat, and NOT to keep cows and sheep. I agree a world without war is an utopia, but as long as you think that war is not something awful but necessary and good, we will never get rid of it.

[necoo]

Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:

these people would not get better jobs because there wouldn't be enough jobs to go around which is the stem of most crime to begin with...if you really want such a utopia there would have to be at least 4 billion less people in the world to share everything with and have plenty of jobs to go around... and of course everyone wants a utopia there is just too many people for such and ideal to become a reality

My last post before I'm off to bed 4 billion less people ? There are 6 billion people in the world now, if you take out 4 billions we're gonna have an empty planet. This planet can feed 6 billion people without problem, lol farmers in Europe get paid NOT to graw corn and wheat, and NOT to keep cows and sheep. I agree a world without war is an utopia, but as long as you think that war is not something awful but necessary and good, we will never get rid of it.

yes i do mean 4 billion less people if this world could support 6 billion people without stress without crime without competition and without war this would have already been the case... however in this world there is hundreds of millions if not billions of people who have to strive to survive, do underhanded things just to get there next meal, and even go without food for days to the point where there bodies start eating there organs just to live. even though this would can support such a vast amount of people the wealthy are selfish and keep everything they have for them selves which is the way the world has been and always will be.

also please note that scientist predict that without fossil fuels there world not be enough energy to produce all the essentials of the world for 6 billion people and the earth would most likely only be able to have a mere 1 billion people

oh and to further emphasis my point war is not good but it is necessary... competition is the core of evolution you know the whole "survival of the fittest thing" all of nature revolves around this... if it is thrown out of balance then the entire world suffers much like how we humans being the dominate species are diminishing the planet of all its resources causing the countless species of the world becoming extinct at a faster rate then ever before in human history... (not that i care about the crappy little animals)... the point is that if we continue our endless expansion there will come a time when we can no longer expand without consequence... and then the amount of resources will diminish until there is nothing left and at that point everyone will die... think of it as a version of the apocalypse without war

[shadowlz]

Wow, someone >_> has a one track mind ill tell you that. A part of this game is risk and survival, if you don't like its probably not the best game for you. You want to carebear? Join a tribe that will protect you.

In EvE online if you want to mine out of high sec, in low sec you get someone guard (usually an alt sadly). In null sec you stay within your alliances territory, keep intel channel up, and your perfectly safe(as long as your not somewhere stupid)

If the carebears in this game are at least as smart as the ones in EvE, they will do the same thing.

Jadzia, your in one of the biggest, if not the biggest, tribe on the forums, so if you just stay near your town and harvest with your tribe, you'll be fine. If its dangerous, then ask the tribe leader for some protection. Learn to adapt ffs. Don't mine 10000 miles from your town, if you see a red, run and tell tribe in chat. This isnt rocket science.


Carebears will be the lifeline of the tribes, provide everything for the tribe and town. The Combatards will protect it and the carebears. As a crafter yes, you probably will get ganked, because your the most valuable target, and if your tribe cant protect you, then you join a different one.



Now if you split the server into PvE only and PvP only, the PvE server will do just fine, build their houses with no interference or conflict.
But the PvP will suffer and die, it would force every PvPer to a playstlye they dont like, and also gimp their combat skills.

Its like, what if there was a server where, carebears had to train PvP skills along with the skills that you like. And if that skill was to low, you would die, all the time. You could never craft everything you want, or chop everything you want.

[Picumnus]

So it seems that there are a number of different things happening in this thread.

1) some people think murder(PKing) is a good "means to an end" and should have no real punishment

2) some people think that PKing should be disallowed entirely without both parties agreeing.

3) then there are a few of us who say PKing is fine, as long as there are SEVERE penalties to the PKers that get caught (ie., captured through combat losses).

Necoo (I think it was) is talking about the necessity of crime and murder and how because some choose that lifestyle that makes it necessary. I would say that is not true, they choose that lifestyle out of ease, ignorance, most commonly, greed. In RL there are real penalties to this lifestyle... you get caught and go to jail or get killed along the way.

So which penalties do you choose in the game... should PKers suffer stronger death penalties than non-PKers? Should they lose more if caught?

To me, crime should be allowed, stealing, killing and the likes but those that choose that way to make a living should have a much higher risk attached to it. After all, it is likely that PKers/griefers will be cleaning up until tribes get well established warrior squads. So since they are gaining more though less work shouldn't they face the chance of losing more?

Now that being said I am going to go back to building my wall to keep your killing and stealing arse out of my area

[sisler86]

Just a few thing here:

1. No one should have to stick close to their tribe and worry about PK'rs in a building, scavenging, crafting, and exploring game, which is exactly what this is. This game promises to appeal to ALL player types. Well, I am a non-PvP explorer type so how is that going to work if I have to worry about getting ganked all the time?

2. Ganking is not a playstyle, it's downright childish and bullying, because it is not wanted on the receiver's end.

3. I think people are reading WAY too much into a game that is not even out yet. All we can do is look at the information that has been given to us already. That being said, this game says very very little about PvP and a whole lot about crafting, building, trading, and the process of growing as a society. It will include some minor PvP elements, but it is incredibly obvious that it will not be the focus of this game and even borderline sounds like it is discouraged. Anyone who says that a game that offers PvP will have PvP is absolutely right, but don't turn the sandbox into an arena. Keep the balance.

4. History has repeatedly shown time and again that when there are tough times and turmoil in the world, people will band together, not split apart. This mentality that a real post-apocalyptic world would be anything like Mad Max, Fallout, or any other dare I say "Hollywood" depiction is complete fiction. Chaos and anarchy will always fail because structure is a human need. Otherwise government would have never existed in the first place.

5. I find it very interesting that those who are trying to tell us that the "carebear's dream MMO" is not for carebears and should play single player games are the same people who freak out at the mention of a PvE only server addition.

Personally I would love to see the game split into two separate servers, I would rather see this game fail because of a server split and have fun than to see it fail because all the non-PvP players left. I do not mind PvP in a game, but it just feels to me like people are trying to force that to be the games focus. I want to build and explore in this world like the game's intention, not be forced to fight in it every five minutes.

[necoo]

Picumnus wrote:

So it seems that there are a number of different things happening in this thread.

Necoo (I think it was) is talking about the necessity of crime and murder and how because some choose that lifestyle that makes it necessary. I would say that is not true, they choose that lifestyle out of ease, ignorance, most commonly, greed. In RL there are real penalties to this lifestyle... you get caught and go to jail or get killed along the way.

since my name was mentioned i feel a need to respond to this

i must clear things up a little i wasn't saying that crimes is necessary because they chose to do it but rather they were forced to do it and without crime there would be no need for police, detectives, and whatever other anti-criminal jobs that are available in which case many would be out of the job and have to find new ones which there wouldn't be enough to go around and that being jobless is what causes people to be force to go into criminal activities... to support this unemployment rate is at an all time high since the great depression and crime rate is at an all time high, coincidence, i think not... but the rest of what you are saying i agree with as in the most commonly it being greed in this case the greedy deserve quick and harsh punishment

[shadowlz]

Jesus christ...

1) well then they need to learn to suck it up, stop sucking so much ass, and learn to avoid players. Go exploring, but dont expect it to be a cake fking walk, there will be mobs programed to kill you, also highwaymen and bandits (gankers) that will try to kill you the same way. I could go exploring Baltimore city, but I know i should keep away from dark alleyways and strange looking people.
If your some death prone, fails to adapt to hostile environment carebear, then you stay near your town. If your smart, know how to avoid danger, thinks out situations kind of crafter PvEer then youll be fine.

2) Ganking is a playstlye weather you like it or not. Is it stupid? Yes. If they roleplayed it would be a lot more fun, but dont expect that from clans like myrmidon. Theres a lot of things you dont want to be on the receiving end of (your wifes pms) but it just happens.

3) Obviously. The carebears came in here trying to split up servers and gimp all the pvp aspects of the game, I'm just defending it.

4) Unrelated, this is game.

5) Again, carebears started this debate. This isnt a carebears dream mmo, its just a great looking sandbox game, where you should beable to play the way you want to on one persistent world.


The carebears need to stop whining. We havent even played the game yet and your whining about gankers, your gonna love myrmidon...
The games hardly PvP focused, but your trying to take every last ounce of blood out of it. What if the combatards went around and made threads about how much they hate crafting, and how crafters are always cutting down our trees they hide in.

Last I checked xsyon is trying to attract more than one type of player.

[sisler86]

shadowlz wrote:

Jesus christ...

1) well then they need to learn to suck it up, stop sucking so much ass, and learn to avoid players. Go exploring, but dont expect it to be a cake fking walk, there will be mobs programed to kill you, also highwaymen and bandits (gankers) that will try to kill you the same way. I could go exploring Baltimore city, but I know i should keep away from dark alleyways and strange looking people.
If your some death prone, fails to adapt to hostile environment carebear, then you stay near your town. If your smart, know how to avoid danger, thinks out situations kind of crafter PvEer then youll be fine.

2) Ganking is a playstlye weather you like it or not. Is it stupid? Yes. If they roleplayed it would be a lot more fun, but dont expect that from clans like myrmidon. Theres a lot of things you dont want to be on the receiving end of (your wifes pms) but it just happens.

3) Obviously. The carebears came in here trying to split up servers and gimp all the pvp aspects of the game, I'm just defending it.

4) Unrelated, this is game.

5) Again, carebears started this debate. This isnt a carebears dream mmo, its just a great looking sandbox game, where you should beable to play the way you want to on one persistent world.


The carebears need to stop whining. We havent even played the game yet and your whining about gankers, your gonna love myrmidon...
The games hardly PvP focused, but your trying to take every last ounce of blood out of it. What if the combatards went around and made threads about how much they hate crafting, and how crafters are always cutting down our trees they hide in.

Last I checked xsyon is trying to attract more than one type of player.

Every response you gave (except for #5 which was a legitimate response to something that was talked about on this thread and was referring to ppl using the "realism" excuse) along with your heated tone and language further proves every point I was trying to make.