PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

[JCatano]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano

I feel like you and a lot of the other PvP's are being a bit........hypocritical here and let me explain.

First, this is a sandbox game, that we can all agree on. A sandbox game is a game where the players shape the world and they play how they want to play. It should (and does) appeal to ALL play styles. That being said, you and some others on here have been telling people like us (that do not like to PvP a lot) that we should not play this game because it offers open PvP, yet when we talk about implementing consequences and restrictions for PK you retaliate by saying that this is a sandbox game so you should be able to play how you want. Well, we do not want to PvP all the time.

Let me ask you something. This game has a huge crafting system that allows you to create weapons, armor, structures, etc out of the materials that you have gathered, but should you be FORCED to take part in crafting if you do not want to? No. So in the same respect, this game does have an open PvP system, but players should not be FORCED into a fight if they are obviously doing something else and not taking part in PvP. In other words, random PK, or "ganking." Just because we have the option to fight anyone we choose in the game, does not mean that we have to play that way. Nor does it mean that people who do not want to play that way should be FORCED to defend themselves if they are minding their own business.

Now, with that I will say that there is a clear difference between minding one's own business, gathering materials around their camp and wandering too close to an enemy tribe.

That's all there is to it. If Mr. Xsyon wants to force us to craft, he will. Then, people would make their decision about playing or not.

But... We know he won't. Trying to compare the two is a major stretch.

At this point, PvP is not going to be a choice. You're going to find it, or it's going to find you. If the world is big enough, it won't find you as often. If it does find you... Have fun with it, since you already know that open-PvP is a mechanic:

11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.

Do you like banging your head against a wall? Of course not. I'm going to assume you don't bang your head against a wall for that reason.

As I said before, I didn't go to the LoTRo forums and scream for PvP. I simply didn't play it.

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano

I feel like you and a lot of the other PvP's are being a bit........hypocritical here and let me explain.

First, this is a sandbox game, that we can all agree on. A sandbox game is a game where the players shape the world and they play how they want to play. It should (and does) appeal to ALL play styles. That being said, you and some others on here have been telling people like us (that do not like to PvP a lot) that we should not play this game because it offers open PvP, yet when we talk about implementing consequences and restrictions for PK you retaliate by saying that this is a sandbox game so you should be able to play how you want. Well, we do not want to PvP all the time.

Let me ask you something. This game has a huge crafting system that allows you to create weapons, armor, structures, etc out of the materials that you have gathered, but should you be FORCED to take part in crafting if you do not want to? No. So in the same respect, this game does have an open PvP system, but players should not be FORCED into a fight if they are obviously doing something else and not taking part in PvP. In other words, random PK, or "ganking." Just because we have the option to fight anyone we choose in the game, does not mean that we have to play that way. Nor does it mean that people who do not want to play that way should be FORCED to defend themselves if they are minding their own business.

Now, with that I will say that there is a clear difference between minding one's own business, gathering materials around their camp and wandering too close to an enemy tribe.

That's all there is to it. If Mr. Xsyon wants to force us to craft, he will. Then, people would make their decision about playing or not.

But... We know he won't. Trying to compare the two is a major stretch.

At this point, PvP is not going to be a choice. You're going to find it, or it's going to find you. If the world is big enough, it won't find you as often. If it does find you... Have fun with it, since you already know that open-PvP is a mechanic:

11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.

Do you like banging your head against a wall? Of course not. I'm going to assume you don't bang your head against a wall for that reason.

As I said before, I didn't go to the LoTRo forums and scream for PvP. I simply didn't play it.

Your response to my last post proves the very hypocrisy I am speaking of, but that aside, I'll leave you tonight with this:

LOTRO does have PvP, it just isn't open and I think they implemented it very well given the plot of the game. LOTRO also is not a sandbox rpg, this is.

Sandbox = people play how they want to play (that is your own argument) Not everyone wants to PvP all the time, and shouldn't be subject to it unwillingly if a sandbox does indeed incorporate all play styles.

We are not here demanding that PvP be taken out of this game, or even open PvP be removed. The devs have repeatedly said that PvP will be a lesser part of this game and that if it becomes like people are making that the focus then they will make changes to stop that. We are not worried about that. Our concern is for others like us that may be driven away from this wonderful game by people who are trying to do the very thing that the devs are trying to prevent.

As I have said before, this is a sandbox, not an arena, just don't make it one. That is all we are asking. We are not the one's trying to change the game. It's all those DF players who came here thinking that this is going to be just like that. Both may have open PvP, but they are two completely different games. Like, apples and oranges. Both are fruit, but that's about it.

[sisler86]

EDIT: Somehow this posted twice.

[JCatano]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano

I feel like you and a lot of the other PvP's are being a bit........hypocritical here and let me explain.

First, this is a sandbox game, that we can all agree on. A sandbox game is a game where the players shape the world and they play how they want to play. It should (and does) appeal to ALL play styles. That being said, you and some others on here have been telling people like us (that do not like to PvP a lot) that we should not play this game because it offers open PvP, yet when we talk about implementing consequences and restrictions for PK you retaliate by saying that this is a sandbox game so you should be able to play how you want. Well, we do not want to PvP all the time.

Let me ask you something. This game has a huge crafting system that allows you to create weapons, armor, structures, etc out of the materials that you have gathered, but should you be FORCED to take part in crafting if you do not want to? No. So in the same respect, this game does have an open PvP system, but players should not be FORCED into a fight if they are obviously doing something else and not taking part in PvP. In other words, random PK, or "ganking." Just because we have the option to fight anyone we choose in the game, does not mean that we have to play that way. Nor does it mean that people who do not want to play that way should be FORCED to defend themselves if they are minding their own business.

Now, with that I will say that there is a clear difference between minding one's own business, gathering materials around their camp and wandering too close to an enemy tribe.

That's all there is to it. If Mr. Xsyon wants to force us to craft, he will. Then, people would make their decision about playing or not.

But... We know he won't. Trying to compare the two is a major stretch.

At this point, PvP is not going to be a choice. You're going to find it, or it's going to find you. If the world is big enough, it won't find you as often. If it does find you... Have fun with it, since you already know that open-PvP is a mechanic:

11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.

Do you like banging your head against a wall? Of course not. I'm going to assume you don't bang your head against a wall for that reason.

As I said before, I didn't go to the LoTRo forums and scream for PvP. I simply didn't play it.

Your response to my last post proves the very hypocrisy I am speaking of, but that aside, I'll leave you tonight with this:

LOTRO does have PvP, it just isn't open and I think they implemented it very well given the plot of the game. LOTRO also is not a sandbox rpg, this is.

Sandbox = people play how they want to play (that is your own argument) Not everyone wants to PvP all the time, and shouldn't be subject to it unwillingly if a sandbox does indeed incorporate all play styles.

We are not here demanding that PvP be taken out of this game, or even open PvP be removed. The devs have repeatedly said that PvP will be a lesser part of this game and that if it becomes like people are making that the focus then they will make changes to stop that. We are not worried about that. Our concern is for others like us that may be driven away from this wonderful game by people who are trying to do the very thing that the devs are trying to prevent.

As I have said before, this is a sandbox, not an arena, just don't make it one. That is all we are asking. We are not the one's trying to change the game. It's all those DF players who came here thinking that this is going to be just like that. Both may have open PvP, but they are two completely different games. Like, apples and oranges. Both are fruit, but that's about it.

I'm not using the "sandbox" argument. You might have me mixed up with PANZER.

Fact: Xsyon has open-PvP. How can I ask him to change the game to open-pvp when it's already in? If anything, Jadzia (and you to a lesser degree) is asking the dev to change the game by making PvP zones and/or PvP flags.

Fact: You are basically asking others to let you play your way, while saying they cannot play their way.

You keep telling me I'm hypocritical? Read ^that^ again.

You know open-PvP is here. You are going to have to embrace it, unless the dev takes it out for the few vocal people here.

Just because someone PK's you doesn't mean they set out to ruin your day... They are using a game mechanic, will take an alignment hit, then go red if they reach 5. Consequence. Plus, it seems he's hinted at another type of penalty.

[necoo]

ok im getting a bit sick of this... the same argument over and over and over again... someone... just... think of something new for once

[JCatano]

necoo wrote:

ok im getting a bit sick of this... the same argument over and over and over again... someone... just... think of something new for once

No you aren't. You took the time to open it. You love it.

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano

I feel like you and a lot of the other PvP's are being a bit........hypocritical here and let me explain.

First, this is a sandbox game, that we can all agree on. A sandbox game is a game where the players shape the world and they play how they want to play. It should (and does) appeal to ALL play styles. That being said, you and some others on here have been telling people like us (that do not like to PvP a lot) that we should not play this game because it offers open PvP, yet when we talk about implementing consequences and restrictions for PK you retaliate by saying that this is a sandbox game so you should be able to play how you want. Well, we do not want to PvP all the time.

Let me ask you something. This game has a huge crafting system that allows you to create weapons, armor, structures, etc out of the materials that you have gathered, but should you be FORCED to take part in crafting if you do not want to? No. So in the same respect, this game does have an open PvP system, but players should not be FORCED into a fight if they are obviously doing something else and not taking part in PvP. In other words, random PK, or "ganking." Just because we have the option to fight anyone we choose in the game, does not mean that we have to play that way. Nor does it mean that people who do not want to play that way should be FORCED to defend themselves if they are minding their own business.

Now, with that I will say that there is a clear difference between minding one's own business, gathering materials around their camp and wandering too close to an enemy tribe.

That's all there is to it. If Mr. Xsyon wants to force us to craft, he will. Then, people would make their decision about playing or not.

But... We know he won't. Trying to compare the two is a major stretch.

At this point, PvP is not going to be a choice. You're going to find it, or it's going to find you. If the world is big enough, it won't find you as often. If it does find you... Have fun with it, since you already know that open-PvP is a mechanic:

11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.

Do you like banging your head against a wall? Of course not. I'm going to assume you don't bang your head against a wall for that reason.

As I said before, I didn't go to the LoTRo forums and scream for PvP. I simply didn't play it.

Your response to my last post proves the very hypocrisy I am speaking of, but that aside, I'll leave you tonight with this:

LOTRO does have PvP, it just isn't open and I think they implemented it very well given the plot of the game. LOTRO also is not a sandbox rpg, this is.

Sandbox = people play how they want to play (that is your own argument) Not everyone wants to PvP all the time, and shouldn't be subject to it unwillingly if a sandbox does indeed incorporate all play styles.

We are not here demanding that PvP be taken out of this game, or even open PvP be removed. The devs have repeatedly said that PvP will be a lesser part of this game and that if it becomes like people are making that the focus then they will make changes to stop that. We are not worried about that. Our concern is for others like us that may be driven away from this wonderful game by people who are trying to do the very thing that the devs are trying to prevent.

As I have said before, this is a sandbox, not an arena, just don't make it one. That is all we are asking. We are not the one's trying to change the game. It's all those DF players who came here thinking that this is going to be just like that. Both may have open PvP, but they are two completely different games. Like, apples and oranges. Both are fruit, but that's about it.

I'm not using the "sandbox" argument. You might have me mixed up with PANZER.

Fact: Xsyon has open-PvP. How can I ask him to change the game to open-pvp when it's already in? If anything, Jadzia (and you to a lesser degree) is asking the dev to change the game by making PvP zones and/or PvP flags.

Fact: You are basically asking others to let you play your way, while saying they cannot play their way.

You keep telling me I'm hypocritical? Read ^that^ again.

You know open-PvP is here. You are going to have to embrace it, unless the dev takes it out for the few vocal people here.

Just because someone PK's you doesn't mean they set out to ruin your day... They are using a game mechanic, will take an alignment hit, then go red if they reach 5. Consequence. Plus, it seems he's hinted at another type of penalty.

Perhaps I was mistaking you for PANZER with the sandbox argument.

On those two colored notes, I think you may have misunderstood me both times. I'll try to reword things a bit.

"just don't make it one. That is all we are asking" - I meant this as more of a compromise since neither party is happy unless the other seems to have to give up something. I just don't think the game should be totally aimed at PvP like some on here (not necessarily you) believe it should or is. This is not a PvP game, it just has open PvP in it.

"We are not the one's trying to change the game" - I did not mean that you were asking for open PvP, obviously that already exists. I just meant that there seem to be some here that are coming into this game thinking that it is going to be a huge PvP warzone and that's all they think about. That is just fine if that is their play style, but they also need to understand that this game is not a PvP focused game, just as (and I'll agree) we non-PvP's need to expect to have to fight once in a while whether we like it or not.

Basically, even though I do not appreciate getting killed randomly when I do not feel like PvP'ing, I do understand that this game does have an open PvP system.

I'm more about keeping the game fair and balanced. I do not want the game to become a giant battlefield, but at the same time, I do not want it to become unplayable for PvP's either. It is a sandbox, but there should be room for everyone.

Now I'm seriously going to bed this time... I have to work in a few hours.

[shadowlz]

Be a lot better if there was commentary.

In the 1st quarter Carebears opened strong with the thread OP and reasonable ideas.

By the 2nd quarter the combatards gained on the carebears, but still trailed by 7 by halftime.

And the 3rd quarter kickoff combatards lost some points with harshwording, but ended up tieing with the carebears who lost points due to their outrageous and increasingly insane PvP systems.

4th quarter is starting strong for the Combatards, useing colorful text, and exposing the carebears redundancy and hypocrisy during this quarter. Not a good start for the carebears bob.


`Well ted what do you think?
`Well bob, it seems like the carebears are at a slight disadvantage due to their temporary loss of their key poster jadiza. The combatards MVP JCatano seems to be dishing out some real punishment bob.
`Yeah he is, he seems to of changed his post style abit in this late game and it is definitely working for him. Well see how he does with his first encounter with jadiza MVP for the carebears in the 4th quarter and see how his post style will work for him ted.
`Now over to jim for the thread highlights, jim?

Well ted, we saw some really comedic trolling by panzer new the end of 3rd quarter around pages 32 and 33, accompanied by some misunderstanding on the carebears side.

Also a great wall of text on page 27, where the carebears bring up reallife. And the combatards backlash. Lots of tongue out faces too. Back to you ted.


In 4th it seems combatards have a good lead, but that can all change once jadiza logs on. Carebears can turn this into a perfectly good lead if they play their cards right.

Certainly can ted, As long as Sisler can keep his defensive stance till carebears offense logs in, they could bring it home.

Ok and thats if for our quarterly report, turn in tomorrow for our update on the situation.

[JCatano]

Well, since it's in... You can't ask people to "play fair". They will play the way they want to play within the mechanics, just as you will do. If someone doesn't like it, they look for another game.

I think it's a bit naive to think that PvP won't be a big part of the game, especially with the mechanics that are involved with it. We all understand it isn't Quake, but it does offer extensive PvP mechanics, and as you can tell by the Tribe Recruitment section... Many are going to take part in PvP and focus heavily on it.

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:

Well, since it's in... You can't ask people to "play fair". They will play the way they want to play within the mechanics, just as you will do. If someone doesn't like it, they look for another game.

I think it's a bit naive to think that PvP won't be a big part of the game, especially with the mechanics that are involved with it. We all understand it isn't Quake, but it does offer extensive PvP mechanics, and as you can tell by the Tribe Recruitment section... Many are going to take part in PvP and focus heavily on it.

It isn't me who is saying PvP will be a small part of the game, it's the devs. Tell them that.