PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

[Jadzia]

HamsterofDoom wrote:

I'm not a fan of any kind of ranking system. If the game isn't compelling enough to want to pvp for more territory, or to clear cut a rival tribe's forest, then the developers have failed. See DDT's post for examples of how point based ranking ends up.

However, I really liked UO's reputation and title system at least early on Pre-Ren. When you saw a "The Dread Lord [insert name}" it was actually pretty scary and awe inspiring. And well, getting the title felt pretty nice too.

The goal of Kitsume's original idea wasn't to encourage PvP in general (no need for that, many players love it anyway) but to encourage PvPers to look for a challenging and balanced fight instead of picking on the weak ones.

And this being achieved by points or titles really doesn't make any difference.

[Bruise187]

[b]kiwibird wrote]
[quote]
What I care about is the ability to sanction such players. Be it place you in a jail system run by players, where you have to pay me back 1.5x the amount you stole, or a month (game time) of hard labour per person you are convicted of killing. Or more easier ways to inflict a punishment on you. I don't care if that means your game sucks, you did something that you know is wrong, I don't care if its in a game or not; I paid for this game, why should I suffer if you choose to play this style of character. You choose the choices to do whatever, live with it.

At the end of the day, my 60 dollars for an initial fee and an 25 dollar on-going fee is just as good as yours. (Dollars round-up to closet 5 in local currency.)
--------------------------
Why would you care about getting some of your money or xp back...your dead. In this lawless world you have no rights yet. I'm sure that some of our settler brothers and sisters for times past were raped and pillaged and no one cared. Casue if there is no witness there is no crime, dead men tell no tells I think it goes. So when I kill your toon and no one is around to see it, why should I have penalty? there was no crime other than you crying in local or general chat about how you were just owned like cattle lol.


On the bounty system, someone said that it wouldn't work because they would just have a friend collect on it. Why not have the bounty system by tribe or alignment maybe. the safest being the one where you use your tribe to collect on it.

[Brutix]

oh god please no pvp ranking system in this game. I hate all ranking systems and all they do is benefit the no life losers. PVP should have a real in-game purpose.

[Kitsume]

Brutix wrote:

oh god please no pvp ranking system in this game. I hate all ranking systems and all they do is benefit the no life losers. PVP should have a real in-game purpose.

I would be interested in hearing your ideas for encouraging PvPers to fight with other PvPers, instead of going after the easy kill newbies and gatherers/crafters.

[sisler86]

Bruise187 wrote:
[quote][b]kiwibird wrote]

What I care about is the ability to sanction such players. Be it place you in a jail system run by players, where you have to pay me back 1.5x the amount you stole, or a month (game time) of hard labour per person you are convicted of killing. Or more easier ways to inflict a punishment on you. I don't care if that means your game sucks, you did something that you know is wrong, I don't care if its in a game or not; I paid for this game, why should I suffer if you choose to play this style of character. You choose the choices to do whatever, live with it.

At the end of the day, my 60 dollars for an initial fee and an 25 dollar on-going fee is just as good as yours. (Dollars round-up to closet 5 in local currency.)
--------------------------
Why would you care about getting some of your money or xp back...your dead. In this lawless world you have no rights yet. I'm sure that some of our settler brothers and sisters for times past were raped and pillaged and no one cared. Casue if there is no witness there is no crime, dead men tell no tells I think it goes. So when I kill your toon and no one is around to see it, why should I have penalty? there was no crime other than you crying in local or general chat about how you were just owned like cattle lol.


On the bounty system, someone said that it wouldn't work because they would just have a friend collect on it. Why not have the bounty system by tribe or alignment maybe. the safest being the one where you use your tribe to collect on it.

Fist of all, the devs said that they had a system in place to prevent players from exploiting the bounty system like that, but wouldn't give any details on it so just take that for what you will.

Second. Every paying customer has the right to play the game how they choose, especially since this is a sandbox game. If Non-Pvp's start to feel like this game is just turning into a giant arena then they will leave because it's not worth the money to play a game that has been ruined for you. In order for this game to succeed, there has to be that balance and it cannot shift. If it shifts in favor of either side then the game will ultimately fail because the game world and community will slowly deplete.

I think once all the features get turned on and the game launches, both sides are going to be a bit disappointed in the mechanics, and the one's who enjoy both play styles will be happy. This game is not a PvP game, nor is it a "better Darkfall," but it's not WoW or LOTRO either.

Also, I'm not big on the ranking system, but I wouldn't mind a system that earn's you titles for different PvP feats. You could extend the title system to PvE players too for doing certain things. A HoF wouldn't be too bad though for like picking up the highest bounties or whatever.

[Palo god]

Kitsume wrote:

Brutix wrote:

oh god please no pvp ranking system in this game. I hate all ranking systems and all they do is benefit the no life losers. PVP should have a real in-game purpose.

I would be interested in hearing your ideas for encouraging PvPers to fight with other PvPers, instead of going after the easy kill newbies and gatherers/crafters.

The thrill of the hunt. Although easy kills will always be tempting.

[VowOfSilence]

Kitsume wrote:

Brutix wrote:

oh god please no pvp ranking system in this game. I hate all ranking systems and all they do is benefit the no life losers. PVP should have a real in-game purpose.

I would be interested in hearing your ideas for encouraging PvPers to fight with other PvPers, instead of going after the easy kill newbies and gatherers/crafters.

I'd suggest a karma system, stat loss when killed depends on how much bad karma you have. Max bad karma takes quite a while to reach, but means 100% skill loss.

Bad karma is gained for ganking, looting items, defeating players of lower level and combat skills, if there is no war declaration, and so on. It should also depend on the karma of the victim and the owner of the territory.

Bad karma gained is exponential, so simply looting some items would be a minimal gain if nothing else factors in.

[Palo god]

VowOfSilence wrote:

Kitsume wrote:

Brutix wrote:

oh god please no pvp ranking system in this game. I hate all ranking systems and all they do is benefit the no life losers. PVP should have a real in-game purpose.

I would be interested in hearing your ideas for encouraging PvPers to fight with other PvPers, instead of going after the easy kill newbies and gatherers/crafters.

I'd suggest a karma system, stat loss when killed depends on how much bad karma you have. Max bad karma takes quite a while to reach, but means 100% skill loss.

Bad karma is gained for ganking, looting items, defeating players of lower level and combat skills, if there is no war declaration, and so on. It should also depend on the karma of the victim and the owner of the territory.

Bad karma gained is exponential, so simply looting some items would be a minimal gain if nothing else factors in.

No one will go red if it means 100% skill loss, and thus will be a pointless mechanic. A game with no bad guys is no fun. If you gank players people will just put bounties on your head in game.

[Brutix]

Kitsume wrote:

Brutix wrote:

oh god please no pvp ranking system in this game. I hate all ranking systems and all they do is benefit the no life losers. PVP should have a real in-game purpose.

I would be interested in hearing your ideas for encouraging PvPers to fight with other PvPers, instead of going after the easy kill newbies and gatherers/crafters.

Wow someone wants to hear my opinion, thats a first All in all I don't have too many ideas at the moment but give me some time, i'll start brainstorming now.

Personally I think there should be nothing in place to stop or hinder pvpers from killing newbs/crafters, however having pvpers mass killing newbs/crafters is a major issue and something does need to be done.

One idea I just had is this. I would like to see a system where if someone kills you, it will be much, much easier to track them down,get revenge and grieve the bastards back. Maybe if someone kills someone else who has low stats or never went into combat mode when they are killed, that the person and all members of the victims tribe are notified instantly about the victims death and able to see the location of the griefer on their map at all times, in real time. The griefer can't hide and his location will always be known to all in the victims tribe until the victim himself kills the griefer. This could give the victim and his tribe a very powerful tool to grief back the grievers, because the victim doesn't have to go get revenge right away, and give his friends plenty of time to kill and re-kill the griefer. Also if a solo newbie gets killed maybe everyone in the victims faction get to see the grievers location in real-time, all the time on their map.

Well I am going to think about this subject more, the idea I just posted just came from the top of my head and could be retarded for all I know, I haven't thought about all the nuances yet. The point is that maybe their should be nothing to stop griefers but somethign in-game to make getting revenge much easier than what we seen in mmo's so far.

[VowOfSilence]

Palo god wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:
I'd suggest a karma system, stat loss when killed depends on how much bad karma you have. Max bad karma takes quite a while to reach, but means 100% skill loss.

Bad karma is gained for ganking, looting items, defeating players of lower level and combat skills, if there is no war declaration, and so on. It should also depend on the karma of the victim and the owner of the territory.

Bad karma gained is exponential, so simply looting some items would be a minimal gain if nothing else factors in.

No one will go red if it means 100% skill loss, and thus will be a pointless mechanic. A game with no bad guys is no fun. If you gank players people will just put bounties on your head in game.

Well, no one will kill and loot newbies all day long, and that's the whole point. Unless the killer is skilled enough to get away with it in the long run - in that case, we'll have a "Jack the Ripper"-legend now and then. But most thieves/murderers will plan their attacks instead to make sure that their coup actually pays off.

edit: bad karma would decrease over time of course.