PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

[Lardocrul]

Time will tell how PVP will work and the dev-team probably will balance the game so that all players have fun and not only a part of them.

[JCatano]

sisler86 wrote:

Fighting over resources is one thing and that is fine. It brings a sense of depth to the game. It's when years down the road new non-PvP players can't even get a good start because the game is overrun by FFA PK's. That is my only concern. I want PvP in this game even though I, for the most part, won't participate. I just don't want the game be increasingly less fun for those of us who choose to build, scavenge, explore, etc.

Yes, meaningful PvP is great, but you are going to have to participate at times whether you like it or not. You will probably have to keep looking over your shoulder, too, especially if you're planning on exploring everywhere. That's the open-PvP part.

That can be dampened somewhat by having allies and controlling territory. It will also help if the devs give us a large enough world, so players can "get lost". While a lot of PK'ing happens in DF, the map is very large, so you can "get lost". I've been mining/chopping/gathering the whole time I have been posting the past few hours. Haven't seen a soul.

[PANZERBUNNY]

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Fighting over resources is one thing and that is fine. It brings a sense of depth to the game. It's when years down the road new non-PvP players can't even get a good start because the game is overrun by FFA PK's. That is my only concern. I want PvP in this game even though I, for the most part, won't participate. I just don't want the game be increasingly less fun for those of us who choose to build, scavenge, explore, etc.

Yes, meaningful PvP is great, but you are going to have to participate at times whether you like it or not. You will probably have to keep looking over your shoulder, too, especially if you're planning on exploring everywhere. That's the open-PvP part.

That can be dampened somewhat by having allies and controlling territory. It will also help if the devs give us a large enough world, so players can "get lost". While a lot of PK'ing happens in DF, the map is very large, so you can "get lost". I've been mining/chopping/gathering the whole time I have been posting the past few hours. Haven't seen a soul.

Everyones gonna get in on it someway or another.

Any self respecting tribe would DEMAND that in times of war or attack on their city, EVERYONE gets onto the walls and grabs and axe, club, Sharp pokey Antler to "do their part".
Saying, "nah man, I want to fish for the next few hours, hope the city doesn't burn to the ground", wont cut it.
I can see some people wanting to stay out of it altogether, but in the end, if you want the freedom to craft and gather in relative peace, you'll have to fight for it.

[Virtus]

^ Amen

[darkrounge]

Well done on you 500 posts Virtus.

[Jadzia]

I don't know if I should go on this debate, since some of you guys seem to keep missing my point. I'm not native english, perhaps I'm not expressing myself clearly enough ?

I'm a member of a big and strong tribe, and my tribemates are really very protective...so I'm personally not really worried about being ganked. Its the freedom of choice I'm talking about.

PvP players want to force their playstyle into others, only seeing their own fun. PK is not fun, dangerous or whatever to me...its childish, bugging, and makes me feel being used. As I said, I don't want to play hide and seek with bored kids.

I've read through the posts, and I saw even PvP players were admitting their server would die without non-PvPers, one of them even said he would leave if a server split happened (thanks, Dominus, your post really made me feel wanted ) If you guys need us so bad, why don't you give some respect to our playstyle? Why do you keep saying 'stay in town if you are scared', 'watch your back if you are too stupid to fight', 'you are a carebear, QQ more' ? Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

To be honest my bigest concern about FFA PvP that it attracts the worst kind of immature playerbase.

Virtus's post gave me a peace in mind. We don't know yet how the game will work, but the developers clearly stated that they don't want PvP to be main element of the game. You can try to read more into it than what its there, but it would be better to accept the stated features. Virtus said PvP will take part when players fight over resources...that sounds good, meaningful PvP. He didn't mention town sieges, the feature list says 'Protected player owned houses', this goes right against the opportunity of destroying villages. Tribe villages will be protected during Prelude, and its not announced how it will work after that.

This thread was useful for me anyway, I was glad to see so many like-minded non-PvP players, though they usually don't post on forums

Again, I'd like to state I'm not against PvP, it freshens up the economy and gives thrill to players who like that. I'm against FFA PvP, so PvP flagging, PvP zones, very strict PvP punishment or anything like that what stops and keeps away mindless gankers will do for me.

[Virtus]

Jadzia wrote:

He didn't mention town sieges, the feature list says Protected player owned houses, this goes right against the opportunity of destroying villages. Tribe villages will be protected during Prelude, and its not announced how it will work after that.

I didn't mention this for two reasons.

1.) It will not be in game for awhile so no one will have to worry about it for now.
2.) I do not know how this feature will work.

and as Jooky has stated ganking and griefing will not be tolerated.

[sisler86]

Jadzia wrote:

I don't know if I should go on this debate, since some of you guys seem to keep missing my point. I'm not native english, perhaps I'm not expressing myself clearly enough ?

I'm a member of a big and strong tribe, and my tribemates are really very protective...so I'm personally not really worried about being ganked. Its the freedom of choice I'm talking about.

PvP players want to force their playstyle into others, only seeing their own fun. PK is not fun, dangerous or whatever to me...its childish, bugging, and makes me feel being used. As I said, I don't want to play hide and seek with bored kids.

I've read through the posts, and I saw even PvP players were admitting their server would die without non-PvPers, one of them even said he would leave if a server split happened (thanks, Dominus, your post really made me feel wanted ) If you guys need us so bad, why don't you give some respect to our playstyle? Why do you keep saying 'stay in town if you are scared', 'watch your back if you are too stupid to fight', 'you are a carebear, QQ more' ? Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

To be honest my bigest concern about FFA PvP that it attracts the worst kind of immature playerbase.

Virtus's post gave me a peace in mind. We don't know yet how the game will work, but the developers clearly stated that they don't want PvP to be main element of the game. You can try to read more into it than what its there, but it would be better to accept the stated features. Virtus said PvP will take part when players fight over resources...that sounds good, meaningful PvP. He didn't mention town sieges, the feature list says 'Protected player owned houses', this goes right against the opportunity of destroying villages. Tribe villages will be protected during Prelude, and its not announced how it will work after that.

This thread was useful for me anyway, I was glad to see so many like-minded non-PvP players, though they usually don't post on forums

Again, I'd like to state I'm not against PvP, it freshens up the economy and gives thrill to players who like that. I'm against FFA PvP, so PvP flagging, PvP zones, very strict PvP punishment or anything like that what stops and keeps away mindless gankers will do for me.

We seem to have the same mindset on this. I totally agree.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Jadzia wrote:

I don't know if I should go on this debate, since some of you guys seem to keep missing my point. I'm not native english, perhaps I'm not expressing myself clearly enough ?

I'm a member of a big and strong tribe, and my tribemates are really very protective...so I'm personally not really worried about being ganked. Its the freedom of choice I'm talking about.

PvP players want to force their playstyle into others, only seeing their own fun. PK is not fun, dangerous or whatever to me...its childish, bugging, and makes me feel being used. As I said, I don't want to play hide and seek with bored kids.

I've read through the posts, and I saw even PvP players were admitting their server would die without non-PvPers, one of them even said he would leave if a server split happened (thanks, Dominus, your post really made me feel wanted ) If you guys need us so bad, why don't you give some respect to our playstyle? Why do you keep saying 'stay in town if you are scared', 'watch your back if you are too stupid to fight', 'you are a carebear, QQ more' ? Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

To be honest my bigest concern about FFA PvP that it attracts the worst kind of immature playerbase.

Virtus's post gave me a peace in mind. We don't know yet how the game will work, but the developers clearly stated that they don't want PvP to be main element of the game. You can try to read more into it than what its there, but it would be better to accept the stated features. Virtus said PvP will take part when players fight over resources...that sounds good, meaningful PvP. He didn't mention town sieges, the feature list says 'Protected player owned houses', this goes right against the opportunity of destroying villages. Tribe villages will be protected during Prelude, and its not announced how it will work after that.

This thread was useful for me anyway, I was glad to see so many like-minded non-PvP players, though they usually don't post on forums

Again, I'd like to state I'm not against PvP, it freshens up the economy and gives thrill to players who like that. I'm against FFA PvP, so PvP flagging, PvP zones, very strict PvP punishment or anything like that what stops and keeps away mindless gankers will do for me.

We also need to realize that ganking to the point of griefing etc isn't a playstyle the majority of the playerbase prefers. Its usually always isolated and we can assume that it will be even MORE isolated due to the small scale of the community.

I think there is alot of doom and gloom going on here in regards to PVP.
I enjoy good PVP and will attack people if its warranted, but I have sympathy for the lone harvester because I know how long it takes to gather that stuff.

In darkfall I was riding past a "red" harvesting wood. I stop....ponder...ride back..stab him in the back. take his 130 wood.
If he wasn't red I would have let him live, but he happened to be a wolf and I'm a dwarf. Thats just how that game works. Kill the opposing "evil" races.

Obviously the only factions from launch will be Tribes.(from what we know) All this means is that the political machines of each tribe need to secure the protection of their members and hold other tribes accountable for unprovoked attacks etc.

[sisler86]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

I don't know if I should go on this debate, since some of you guys seem to keep missing my point. I'm not native english, perhaps I'm not expressing myself clearly enough ?

I'm a member of a big and strong tribe, and my tribemates are really very protective...so I'm personally not really worried about being ganked. Its the freedom of choice I'm talking about.

PvP players want to force their playstyle into others, only seeing their own fun. PK is not fun, dangerous or whatever to me...its childish, bugging, and makes me feel being used. As I said, I don't want to play hide and seek with bored kids.

I've read through the posts, and I saw even PvP players were admitting their server would die without non-PvPers, one of them even said he would leave if a server split happened (thanks, Dominus, your post really made me feel wanted ) If you guys need us so bad, why don't you give some respect to our playstyle? Why do you keep saying 'stay in town if you are scared', 'watch your back if you are too stupid to fight', 'you are a carebear, QQ more' ? Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

To be honest my bigest concern about FFA PvP that it attracts the worst kind of immature playerbase.

Virtus's post gave me a peace in mind. We don't know yet how the game will work, but the developers clearly stated that they don't want PvP to be main element of the game. You can try to read more into it than what its there, but it would be better to accept the stated features. Virtus said PvP will take part when players fight over resources...that sounds good, meaningful PvP. He didn't mention town sieges, the feature list says 'Protected player owned houses', this goes right against the opportunity of destroying villages. Tribe villages will be protected during Prelude, and its not announced how it will work after that.

This thread was useful for me anyway, I was glad to see so many like-minded non-PvP players, though they usually don't post on forums

Again, I'd like to state I'm not against PvP, it freshens up the economy and gives thrill to players who like that. I'm against FFA PvP, so PvP flagging, PvP zones, very strict PvP punishment or anything like that what stops and keeps away mindless gankers will do for me.

We also need to realize that ganking to the point of griefing etc isn't a playstyle the majority of the playerbase prefers. Its usually always isolated and we can assume that it will be even MORE isolated due to the small scale of the community.

I think there is alot of doom and gloom going on here in regards to PVP.
I enjoy good PVP and will attack people if its warranted, but I have sympathy for the lone harvester because I know how long it takes to gather that stuff.

In darkfall I was riding past a "red" harvesting wood. I stop....ponder...ride back..stab him in the back. take his 130 wood.
If he wasn't red I would have let him live, but he happened to be a wolf and I'm a dwarf. Thats just how that game works. Kill the opposing "evil" races.

Obviously the only factions from launch will be Tribes.(from what we know) All this means is that the political machines of each tribe need to secure the protection of their members and hold other tribes accountable for unprovoked attacks etc.

I also agree with this. I like the option of PvP even though I rarely participate. I typically have the "live and let live" mindset and would probably not have killed that wolf even though he was red. I only defend myself, which is the reason I do not play darkfall. I understand that I may be forced to defend myself at times and that is fine. I can accept that and I expect that. I don't think that all the arguments against the FFA PvP system are as serious as a lot of us "myself included" have made them out to be, but we do have some legitimate concerns and just don't want this game to turn out like some other sandbox MMORPG's have in the past.