PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

[Jeopardy]

I have read quite a bit of the conversation on the potential PvP and PK that will be available. I have paid for the game as well, but am a bit concerned.

My experience's in ATITD and WURM online are much more related to what this game is, rather than these other MMO's (which I have played as well) that players are discussing.

ATITD had no PK, but it had plenty of griefing. WURM has both issues.

To me, PvP and PK is all about loss. Loss of what is the question. It's based on a perspective of what is important to each individual player. If I spend 4 hours mining, and I get PK'd and lose everything I worked on, then nope, I don't want to play. It's NOT fun.

If I build a camp (or a house or whatever) and someone comes over and builds garbage cheap buildings all around it so I can no longer even enjoy being there...then nope, I don't want to play.

It's about value, it's about what we individually value. Each of us finds different things important. It has GOT to be balanced or this game will simply turn into a different type of gank or grief-fest. Some folks like those kind of games, but many of us, do not.

ATITD has a law system, that allows players to define the laws...the issue with it is, it's slow. Too slow to be useful or effective. I really appreciate the law system they have and would love to have something like that here, but it would have to be a much faster process for it to do the job properly.

In a game like this (town building etc), any form of PK that allows loss of items will be rough. Nobody wishes to spend hours on anything and have it lost in a moment.

No place in the real world would a murderer be allowed to rampage for days on end. It shouldn't be like that in a game either, all that leads to is corpse camping and alot of angry players.

PvP is player vs player and is generally something that is ASKED. PK on the other hand is player killing and it's usually more of a free for all environment...and not something that is chosen. It just happens and has a more out of control feel.

Personally, I can deal with PvP. I can even get involved in it. PK on the other hand just has a bad reputation (and to most of us, it's an earned reputation) and gives me a really bad feeling if any games allows it.

I have seen many systems use locks (in this game we could build them) and lock down each piece of gear and box that we don't wish to lose if we are killed (that we are carrying). But nothing like that would solve repeat offenders from just pounding someone over and over when they try to collect supplies, or build something.

I have a suggestion that might help. Each time a player kills another one (I am hoping it won't be PK, but rather PvP...but either way this might work)...

1. He receives a chain link attached to his ankle. Each link he wears slows his movement speed down. He can have a maximum of 10 before he can no longer walk at more than crawl speed. He can have a blacksmith remove the links, one per RL hour. However, the blacksmith would earn some form of bad reputation for each link removed and thus, also earn links after so many are removed for others. Once the player is maxed out (10 links) that player can also be captured easily and placed in jail.

or...

2. Players are limited as to how many they can kill in one day. The cost of being captured should be high. So, for example...they killed someone and stole a ton of ore. That player would be required to collect 1.5x the amount of ore stolen before he would be released. So maybe during his jail time, his spirit can exit the jail (not interact with anyone) but can collect the retribution payment. The goal of course, would be to not get caught.

***Just ideas, and I don't have a clue if any would work. But PK or PvP needs cost. Cost EQUAL (or higher) to the losses they give to other players. 4 hours of real life time and work, should cost the pk'r that as well if they are caught. THAT would be fair.

There are way too many games that just let the gank fests ruin the game. This game has SO much potential.

I prefer choice...if I want to PvP or not, I say yes or no. But if that can't be here, then please...make sure the cost to the PK'r equals the loss of the player being pk'd.

Bottom line, I don't want to lose hours of work. In fact, I can say that I won't do it for long if it happens.

Just my thoughts. :S

[Largion]

Why do you even want to play a game that have pvp options or even a online game?

If I build a camp (or a house or whatever) and someone comes over and builds garbage cheap buildings all around it so I can no longer even enjoy being there...then nope, I don't want to play.

What if they think your house is the ugly one? You cant controle outhers in a mmorpg.

To me, PvP and PK is all about loss. Loss of what is the question. It's based on a perspective of what is important to each individual player. If I spend 4 hours mining, and I get PK'd and lose everything I worked on, then nope, I don't want to play. It's NOT fun.


If you mine for 4 hours and dont bank your items you deserve to lose them.

[Jeopardy]

Largion wrote:

Why do you even want to play a game that have pvp options or even a online game?

PvP done right is fun, and adds challenges. Done wrong, destroys the game.

What if they think your house is the ugly one? You cant controle outhers in a mmorpg.

Actually, if you are willing to PK, then you should be willing to have a price as well if you are caught. Something equal to the cost of what you took. Control should be based on player laws or developer rules. So yes, you can control.

If you mine for 4 hours and dont bank your items you deserve to lose them.

Sounds to me like you havent played may building style games. You can't mine a piece of ore, run to town and bank it. It takes time to collect and craft (or at least it should).

This is a brand spankin' new game. It's up to the developer to decide what type of player base he wants. It's up to us to let him know what we want.

[Largion]

Jeopardy wrote:

Sounds to me like you havent played may building style games. You can't mine a piece of ore, run to town and bank it. It takes time to collect and craft (or at least it should).

This is a brand spankin' new game. It's up to the developer to decide what type of player base he wants. It's up to us to let him know what we want.

I played UO for 6 something years SWG, and latest was Darkfall.

Im not talking about banking every minute but if you have been mining for 10 min its most likerly time too. Just be smart about it and you will be fine.

[comestible]

Jeopardy wrote:

Largion wrote:

Why do you even want to play a game that have pvp options or even a online game?

PvP done right is fun, and adds challenges. Done wrong, destroys the game.

So far it looks like your two suggestions are an example of it done wrong.

What if they think your house is the ugly one? You cant controle outhers in a mmorpg.

Actually, if you are willing to PK, then you should be willing to have a price as well if you are caught. Something equal to the cost of what you took. Control should be based on player laws or developer rules. So yes, you can control.

You worded it that "Each time a player kills another one" NOT whenever they are caught. This is confusing, can you explain how somebody would be 'caught'.

If you mine for 4 hours and dont bank your items you deserve to lose them.

Sounds to me like you havent played may building style games. You can't mine a piece of ore, run to town and bank it. It takes time to collect and craft (or at least it should).

This is a brand spankin' new game. It's up to the developer to decide what type of player base he wants. It's up to us to let him know what we want.

This is a team oriented game. If you don't want to be ganked for your goods then work as a team with some like minded folks. In the event you run into some PVP or it runs into you, you'll have better chances of keeping your goods.

[hawkwood70]

Or do like Eve and mine with one toon and run resources to the bank with another :P

[Kyrmius]

Largion wrote:

Why do you even want to play a game that have pvp options or even a online game?

Good question, a worthy question.

Almost all of the best Sandbox MMOs are PvP. So if you like/love PvP and also like/love experiencing a virtual reality in regards to altering the environment, REAL crafting, realistic virtual living, then you are all set. Especially it seems in Xsyon.

But what if you want to experience everything a sandbox MMO has to offer EXCEPT PvP/PK (to me there is absolutely no difference)?

Then you are screwed like me. I love sandbox MMOs except for the killing characters part. If you can't understand why I am this way or why I can't PvP, well even I am not completely sure myself, all I can say is it is the way I am. All I know is it makes me sick even to watch it take place in a MMO even if I don't participate. I am not alone, there are other Players like myself, but generally Developers are of the PvP type and they don't understand us either.

Online games do NOT have to have any PvP at all.... they are just always made that way, the biggest reason is that Players enjoy killing each other in a game where the Law doesn't show up to arrest them for the activity. I seriously have never heard a single argument that proves to me that we must kill in online games... it's just how they have been done. There is infact many other possibilities that Developers and Players have never considered much.

I STILL crave a sandbox MMO style virtual world. I have played Wurm and loved most of it, and I have derived a massive amount of enjoyment just from interacting... living.. tin the virtual world of Wurm. Terraforming to make a necessary road or a deed, cutting sprouts and planting trees and shrubs for hours, foraging/botanizing ad nausium, these are the features I love. I don't need a feature like PvP for my game enjoyment, living in the virtual world itself and making a livng are all I could ask for. However Wurm is dated, and has it's limits, and I am watching Xsyon to see if it is truely what I seek. Xsyon looks like the next generation, new and improved, yet it's own unique world. I will be watching Xsyon from a far, and if it appears that there will be a place for me, then I will be spending a lot of time there. If Xsyon looks too hostile for the likes of me then I will be waiting again for years for another sandbox MMO.

In the meantime, enjoy Xsyon, it does indeed look very good longterm, and that compliment is coming from a Player that hates PvP in all forms. I will not ask that Xsyon be changed for the sake of Players like myself. Just keep Xsyon on it's heading and may fair winds keep your ship moving swiftly along to full feature release.

[Palo god]

Kyrmius wrote:

Largion wrote:

Why do you even want to play a game that have pvp options or even a online game?

Good question, a worthy question.

Almost all of the best Sandbox MMOs are PvP. So if you like/love PvP and also like/love experiencing a virtual reality in regards to altering the environment, REAL crafting, realistic virtual living, then you are all set. Especially it seems in Xsyon.

But what if you want to experience everything a sandbox MMO has to offer EXCEPT PvP/PK (to me there is absolutely no difference)?

Then you are screwed like me. I love sandbox MMOs except for the killing characters part. If you can't understand why I am this way or why I can't PvP, well even I am not completely sure myself, all I can say is it is the way I am. All I know is it makes me sick even to watch it take place in a MMO even if I don't participate. I am not alone, there are other Players like myself, but generally Developers are of the PvP type and they don't understand us either.

Online games do NOT have to have any PvP at all.... they are just always made that way, the biggest reason is that Players enjoy killing each other in a game where the Law doesn't show up to arrest them for the activity. I seriously have never heard a single argument that proves to me that we must kill in online games... it's just how they have been done. There is infact many other possibilities that Developers and Players have never considered much.

I STILL crave a sandbox MMO style virtual world. I have played Wurm and loved most of it, and Xsyon looks like the next generation, new and improved, yet it's own unique world. I will be watching Xsyon from a far, and if it appears that there will be a place for me, then I will be spending a lot of time there. If Xsyon looks too hostile for the likes of me then I will be waiting again for years for another sandbox MMO.

In the meantime, enjoy Xsyon, it does indeed look very good longterm, and that compliment is coming from a Player that hates PvP in all forms. I will not ask that Xsyon be changed for the sake of Players like myself. Just keep Xsyon on it's heading and may fair winds keep your ship moving swiftly along to full feature release.

You sound like a care bear. Why are you afraid of pixels dieing?

[Kyrmius]

Palo god wrote:

Kyrmius wrote:

Largion wrote:

Why do you even want to play a game that have pvp options or even a online game?

Good question, a worthy question.

Almost all of the best Sandbox MMOs are PvP. So if you like/love PvP and also like/love experiencing a virtual reality in regards to altering the environment, REAL crafting, realistic virtual living, then you are all set. Especially it seems in Xsyon.

But what if you want to experience everything a sandbox MMO has to offer EXCEPT PvP/PK (to me there is absolutely no difference)?

Then you are screwed like me. I love sandbox MMOs except for the killing characters part. If you can't understand why I am this way or why I can't PvP, well even I am not completely sure myself, all I can say is it is the way I am. All I know is it makes me sick even to watch it take place in a MMO even if I don't participate. I am not alone, there are other Players like myself, but generally Developers are of the PvP type and they don't understand us either.

Online games do NOT have to have any PvP at all.... they are just always made that way, the biggest reason is that Players enjoy killing each other in a game where the Law doesn't show up to arrest them for the activity. I seriously have never heard a single argument that proves to me that we must kill in online games... it's just how they have been done. There is infact many other possibilities that Developers and Players have never considered much.

I STILL crave a sandbox MMO style virtual world. I have played Wurm and loved most of it, and Xsyon looks like the next generation, new and improved, yet it's own unique world. I will be watching Xsyon from a far, and if it appears that there will be a place for me, then I will be spending a lot of time there. If Xsyon looks too hostile for the likes of me then I will be waiting again for years for another sandbox MMO.

In the meantime, enjoy Xsyon, it does indeed look very good longterm, and that compliment is coming from a Player that hates PvP in all forms. I will not ask that Xsyon be changed for the sake of Players like myself. Just keep Xsyon on it's heading and may fair winds keep your ship moving swiftly along to full feature release.

You sound like a care bear. Why are you afraid of pixels dieing?

because even though a character is pixels, that blob of pixels represents a living breathing human creature. It's Energy, and in real life we are matter... which can be energy... frankly I don't see a real difference between the real world and the virtual.

As a result, I do not kill, nor do I steal, in any Online Game/ MMORPG/MMOG/ Virtual World.

I do not ask anyone to understand or agree, just this is who I am. If that makes me a carebear, then here's my sign.

I do not expect I will be playing Xsyon... even though it's world tempts me. I do wish you all the very best of good servers and lag free gametime.

[Palo god]

Freaking hippies and their free love and pseudo wisdom.