Let diplomacy and/or war settle this?

[ifireallymust]

honestly if you're a solo player minding your own business you shoudl be off the radar for even the most grief minded tribes.

unless you're sitting on a nice resource plot or on some strategic position...and if that's the case, what would you think would happen?

and yes, seiges should take hours.

You'll be safe as long as you never have anything we want...

Is that supposed to be comforting?

[denzil71]

[sloffe]

Actually the maths was wrong as well. One homestead with a radius of 20m would fit into the tribes 220m radius area more than 30 times giving the tribe of 20 a 50% greater area per person than the homesteader and therefore the greater access to resources.

[Lerxst]

Sorry Chaos/Benson. On one hand I agree - let the players settle this dispute in-game. On the other hand, I don't think the game can handle it, at least not yet. Too much room to exploit it and take advantage of other players and the system.

We can't all be on 24 hours and I don;t much like the idea of logging in to find my totem destroyed, structures burned to the ground and personal goods stolen while I slept... albeit not for very long

I would much rather see a long-term solution to the problem that would take time; sort of a war of attrition. I'm almost thinking in terms of Civilization 4 tactics here. Implement a "value" of some kind that each settlement starts with and can improve. If you border another settlement and your value (culture in Civ 4 terms) increases however much of a percent above theirs, than you basically conquer their totem/area.

Of course there would have to be some safeguards so that a well developed homestead could never be conquered by a large tribe. So, for example if a homestead can only get a value of 55 and a large tribe can get 100, make the "conquer" value be twice the target. This way actively maintained homesteads can't conquer one another (if they keep that gap narrow enough) and tribes can't conquer the homesteads - twice 55 is 110, which is more than a tribe could gain. But totems that haven't been maintained can be "erased" if their neighbors start to build up. May also require a grace period at the start to give a homesteader a chance vs the 20+ people in a tribe. On the other hand, once you're developed, it will help keep your borders clear.

Ok, I know it's complicated, but at least it will keep the griefers at bay and make people actually have to play the game but also allow totem conquest.

[Dubanka]

Sorry Chaos/Benson. On one hand I agree - let the players settle this dispute in-game. On the other hand, I don't think the game can handle it, at least not yet. Too much room to exploit it and take advantage of other players and the system.

We can't all be on 24 hours and I don;t much like the idea of logging in to find my totem destroyed, structures burned to the ground and personal goods stolen while I slept... albeit not for very long

I would much rather see a long-term solution to the problem that would take time; sort of a war of attrition. I'm almost thinking in terms of Civilization 4 tactics here. Implement a "value" of some kind that each settlement starts with and can improve. If you border another settlement and your value (culture in Civ 4 terms) increases however much of a percent above theirs, than you basically conquer their totem/area.

Of course there would have to be some safeguards so that a well developed homestead could never be conquered by a large tribe. So, for example if a homestead can only get a value of 55 and a large tribe can get 100, make the "conquer" value be twice the target. This way actively maintained homesteads can't conquer one another (if they keep that gap narrow enough) and tribes can't conquer the homesteads - twice 55 is 110, which is more than a tribe could gain. But totems that haven't been maintained can be "erased" if their neighbors start to build up. May also require a grace period at the start to give a homesteader a chance vs the 20+ people in a tribe. On the other hand, once you're developed, it will help keep your borders clear.

Ok, I know it's complicated, but at least it will keep the griefers at bay and make people actually have to play the game but also allow totem conquest.

Seiging should be extremely difficult.

No one should get a free pass. Just because you're the 'lttle guy' doesn't give you license to be immune from the big guys. especially when you're in their way.

besides, any 'griefer protection' (sicne all non-consensual pvp is griefing THE HORROR) that gets coded in, well, I dare say we're smart enough get around it. Homesteads can only fight homestead. Great. boys, need a homestead to split off an eliminate bob, he's sitting on the last pile of trash in the basin.

of course i could just lock you into your house...via a good old fashioned blockade...that's loads of fun for everyone.

but in all seriousness, it should take significant time, energy and resources to stage a seige..and seiging a well fortified homestead would take about the same amount of those elements as a 100 person fortress.

i'm not sure what yall are afraid of...they are only pixels.

[ifireallymust]

Seiging should be extremely difficult.

No one should get a free pass. Just because you're the 'lttle guy' doesn't give you license to be immune from the big guys. especially when you're in their way.

besides, any 'griefer protection' (sicne all non-consensual pvp is griefing THE HORROR) that gets coded in, well, I dare say we're smart enough get around it. Homesteads can only fight homestead. Great. boys, need a homestead to split off an eliminate bob, he's sitting on the last pile of trash in the basin.

of course i could just lock you into your house...via a good old fashioned blockade...that's loads of fun for everyone.

but in all seriousness, it should take significant time, energy and resources to stage a seige..and seiging a well fortified homestead would take about the same amount of those elements as a 100 person fortress.

i'm not sure what yall are afraid of...they are only pixels.

i'm not sure what yall are afraid of...they are only pixels. Why are you so scared you and yours won't be able to get your hands on every last one of them?

[Koll]

Great point made by river111 on page 5 of this thread:
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...s-unbelievable
My own rant is on page 4...

I actually agree with this solution, and I would be happy with it,
but ideally, also give us a way to remove someone else's totem.
How exactly can we do that now without just being super annoying?

In reality someone could walk up, burn your house to the ground, chop your totem down, and walk off.
But also "in reality" there is a "fair balance" deterrent, because you could have sentry/alarms (dogs, watchtowers etc), and if you kill someone, or injure them, they are likely to be permanently removed as a threat.

This is a game, not reality- yes I know.
I'm not advocating a perfectly realistic system; this is a game and that is why games have systems for dealing with things like conquest and diplomacy which are balanced to the specifics of the game boundaries (Which are by nature, limited to less-than-real).
You have to admit though, that making a game with such strong focus on realistic features not having a system to balance basic property rights is kind of strange.

Maybe you "limit" the amount of "war declaration" one tribe can do in a set amount of time (one per 14 days maybe) then you would alleviate "steamroller" effect where a large tribe just wipes out everyone in mere days. Also before taking over a piece of land maybe there could be a transition time (like at least 72 hours) where a tribe could fight back the invader and take back its land. I am for what is proposed here (knowing that it means that we might loose our land) but it needs a fair balance I think. So that destroying a tribe or a homesteads is not just a matter of taking down a wooden post (totem).

To fight that back, I think homestead should be allowed to be in communities (within the same area) so you have to take ALL of them out not just one before you can laid claim to their land. Was it Shadowrun that had a system like that were wars for cities took 72 hours ???

[Salvadore]

Its good to see that FINALLY some of the community is starting to get the idea...GREAT post from the OP. Thread needs bumped because it almost drown in a tidal wave of /cry threads about server start.

As stated by several before...the more you try to "code" ways to create false safety, the more exploitable and problematic the system becomes.

I think it was said best here:

Seiging should be extremely difficult.

but in all seriousness, it should take significant time, energy and resources to stage a seige..and seiging a well fortified homestead would take about the same amount of those elements as a 100 person fortress.

[Risk]

really...all this over cargo pants...i mean theyre cool but come on folks...pants are pants....what are ya gunna get from a 100+ tribe with no pants aside from a REALLY un-comfortable moment...