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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by maelwydd View Post
    How to tell if someone is using a macro?

    Send then a whisper, if they don't reply report them.
    So if I don't reply to a random stranger I have no desire to speak to, I get reported? Great.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dweetybyrd View Post
    People use the macros to level up.... if you level up fishing to 100, great! but when you can take those 10XP points you just cheated your way to by Macro/Bot leveling your character, and apply them to axes..... that’s an unfair advantage over a player who didn’t cheat. Then, you use all of those leveling points gained from cheating, and 2 weeks later you have a macro user who has 100 additional points to apply to combat.

    Long story short, this it is not a victimless crime The cheaters exploit the 'small' things and it gives them a huge and unfair advantage against other players.

    That’s my view.
    I don't agree with this. By your logic, people who have the ability to play the game 12 hours per day are "cheating" because they have an unfair advantage over someone like me who might only play the game 12 hours per week.

    The other misconception about macros is that people think a player can just start a macro and walk away for hours or a whole day. That is very rarely the case. Most of the time the macroer still needs to be sitting at their computer to steer the player once in a while, stop and start the macro if there is an issue, to clean inventory, etc. Mostly what a macro does in a game like this is make it so the player doesn't have to hit so many buttons to complete repetitive functions. I personally couldn't care less if people do this, and I don't see it as cheating at all. I see it as 1) Smart or 2) A situation where the game should be more fun and less repetitive.

    The only exception to this for me is if a macro allows a player to perform the function much faster than your average human could. By faster, I mean faster than a human can even move. This is one place where detection code comes into play. These are known as a "velocity check", among other names in programming lingo. Systems like VAC or Punkbuster work, in part, with checks like these. However, if a macro is moving at normal human speed, who cares? Your opinion that this is cheating, is just that; an opinion.

    Added after 5 minutes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kordesh View Post
    Having gradual progression of something does not automatically=grindy. The only people that believe such are min/maxers who bring it on themselves. The nature of the whole sandbox genre is about slow meaningful progression, but the problem is people want "max everything now!" so they macro, exploit, and cheat their way to the top and then blame the devs because "it was too hard" instead of playing as it was intended and letting those skills increase as you naturally used them during your play time.
    This is your opinion. You are basically telling me what should constitute my gameplay based on your own idea of what constitutes "fair" gameplay. I'm no min/maxer, nor do I care to macro, but my opinion stands that as long as macroing doesn't hurt the economy or give people some type of inhuman ability, such as performing tasks at computer speeds rather than human speeds, then I personally don't care if others macro.

    To me it is no different than telling people they shouldn't use voice com programs such as Vent, just because Xsyon doesn't have built in voice comms. It could be said that I have an unfair advantage using Vent that non-Vent using players don't have, but that doesn't mean I am cheating.

  3. #13
    So if I send you a whisper asking "hey, you there?" why wouldn't you reply?

    I mean, if I see you jumping continually or going in and out of hide I would expect you to be there. If you don't reply not my problem.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mindtrigger View Post
    I don't agree with this. By your logic, people who have the ability to play the game 12 hours per day are "cheating" because they have an unfair advantage over someone like me who might only play the game 12 hours per week.

    The other misconception about macros is that people think a player can just start a macro and walk away for hours or a whole day. That is very rarely the case. Most of the time the macroer still needs to be sitting at their computer to steer the player once in a while, stop and start the macro if there is an issue, to clean inventory, etc. Mostly what a macro does in a game like this is make it so the player doesn't have to hit so many buttons to complete repetitive functions. I personally couldn't care less if people do this, and I don't see it as cheating at all. I see it as 1) Smart or 2) A situation where the game should be more fun and less repetitive.

    The only exception to this for me is if a macro allows a player to perform the function much faster than your average human could. By faster, I mean faster than a human can even move. This is one place where detection code comes into play. These are known as a "velocity check", among other names in programming lingo. Systems like VAC or Punkbuster work, in part, with checks like these. However, if a macro is moving at normal human speed, who cares? Your opinion that this is cheating, is just that; an opinion.
    1. Having a life outside a videogame is normal. Having 23 hours a day to play is not. People who have the time to play don’t have an unfair advantage, nor are they cheating.. come on... that is a stupid argument. I am talking about unfairly manipulating the game.. good old fashion time and manpower is not that.
    2. You need a better Macro maker in your tribe if you believe this. There are dudes that have completely self sustaining Macros, eating, drinking and everything.
    3. The use of 3rd party software is prohibited, there is a reason for this. It does not allow for a level playing field. Justify it however you want, you are obviously a fan.

  5. #15
    Obviously we should just let everyone macro to their heart's content. It worked so well for so many other games.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by maelwydd View Post
    So if I send you a whisper asking "hey, you there?" why wouldn't you reply?

    I mean, if I see you jumping continually or going in and out of hide I would expect you to be there. If you don't reply not my problem.
    Two possible reasons could be that there is no reply function and I don't want to spell out your ridiculous name (not yours in particular, just any long ridiculous name)

    Another is that I missed it while blinking and global chat swept your message away.

    And a bonus reason, because the person in question doesn't care what the self appointed macro police think.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jumpshot View Post
    Two possible reasons could be that there is no reply function and I don't want to spell out your ridiculous name (not yours in particular, just any long ridiculous name)

    Another is that I missed it while blinking and global chat swept your message away.

    And a bonus reason, because the person in question doesn't care what the self appointed macro police think.
    This.

    Also, why can't games become more fun. I mean, I know some people enjoy just clicking their mouse over and over again, but practically every MMO that has ever come out uses click and wait crafting and harvesting. I think it's getting pretty old now.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dweetybyrd View Post
    1. Having a life outside a videogame is normal. Having 23 hours a day to play is not. People who have the time to play don’t have an unfair advantage, nor are they cheating.. come on... that is a stupid argument. I am talking about unfairly manipulating the game.. good old fashion time and manpower is not that.
    2. You need a better Macro maker in your tribe if you believe this. There are dudes that have completely self sustaining Macros, eating, drinking and everything.
    3. The use of 3rd party software is prohibited, there is a reason for this. It does not allow for a level playing field. Justify it however you want, you are obviously a fan.
    You don't know me, so don't make yourself sound like a fool by pretending you do. I play sandbox games because I like being a part of a real living breathing game community. I didn't come here to min/max or macro myself to glory. In addition, my opinion on this matter has nothing at all to do with my tribe. We don't have a tribe "macro maker". Interesting you should bring something like that up...

    I am a programmer, and I tend to look at things logically. What is "normal" play time in an MMO? I think you would be surprised how many people play these games 8 hours per day or more. I'm a casual player with many hobbies and interests outside of gaming, and I will be lucky if I get 12 hours per week including weekend sessions.

    Playing the Devil's advocate, what difference does it make to you if I am a casual player who runs a crafting macro for 4 hours per day, or if I am a standard player who crafts for 4 hours per day? The end result is basically the same if we have a crafting system that is made up of nothing but repetitive button clicking. Throw in some type of variable "mini-game" feature to crafting, and you just eliminated the ability to macro it.

    You can make closed macros, but I haven't seen any situations in this game yet where doing so impacts other players more than someone who has 8-12 hours per day of gaming time at their disposal. If it does, then Notorious needs to address this because the game is broken in that area. What do you care if someone is sitting at their desk clicking buttons, or if they have a program doing it for them? What is the impact on you or other players directly? Is it that you will have to stop to rest your hands once in a while, and the macroer won't?

    The "use of third party software" clause is about as ambiguous a rule as anyone could ever make. Does this mean I can't use IM to Chat with fellow tribe members, or use voice comms like Vent, or listen to music through Winamp while I play? Does it mean I can't use software to record my game play sessions to show on YouTube like so many people have already done? Sure Notorious can enforce whatever they want (or rather whatever they can detect), but banning people for such a stupid reason only serves to hurt their income as a company. This isn't WoW with millions of subscribers. This is an indy game where each player's $15 per month counts.

    I already gave perfectly good examples for ways to minimize macroing, and it is on Notorious to implement them. I'm not advocating macroing here either except to say that as long as the game has the proper protections in place to make sure it is simple automation, and not a true "exploit" that impacts the economy, then I don't care if people macro.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armand View Post
    Obviously we should just let everyone macro to their heart's content. It worked so well for so many other games.
    My OP states ways Notorious could counter macroing. If you are expecting people not to macro out of the kindness of their heart, then you must be from some planet I have never visited before.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by maelwydd View Post
    How to tell if someone is using a macro?

    Send then a whisper, if they don't reply report them.
    If they dont reply? I dont reply to any wispers, 99% of the time I dont see it, and if i did, I dont care.
    If your not in my vent, I really dont give a shit what you want by asking in a wisper.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcalhou View Post
    This.

    Also, why can't games become more fun. I mean, I know some people enjoy just clicking their mouse over and over again, but practically every MMO that has ever come out uses click and wait crafting and harvesting. I think it's getting pretty old now.
    I didn't play it long, and I think they've since dumbed it down - but when EQ2 came out it had an active crafing system.

    As the craft progressed, different "events" would happen that could affect the outcome. You would have to quicky react with some of your learned "moves" to either counter or encourage the events. It was neato.

    Oops didn't mean to derail >.>

    Gettum, WingChun!

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