Non Violent forms of PVP

[Sirius]

[mindless wall of text]

TRANSLATION: Anyone who engages in non-consensual PVP is a mean nasty griefer who doesn't play the way I want to play. These people have no business telling me how I should play. However, if they don't play the way I want them to play, I will cry to the devs until those players get banned for not playing the way I want them to play and for having the nerve to try to tell me how I should play.

Irony: it ain't just something de wife do to de shirts.

[LordTenacious]

But if pvp's on it might distract us from making useless armor, useless weapons, and useless buildings.

[kergan]

Yeah but Dub, in all fairness the devlopers have stated PvP is not a priority for the game. It has PvP but it is not the focus. Perhaps down the line it might be but for the near future the game isn't going to be a mindless gankfest like some other 'open sandbox FFA PvP' games have become. That is waht attracted me. I love PvP but I want a game that places more priority on WHY we PvP then WHERE.

I can understand it may not be the priority for the devs...but it IS the priority for many of us who want to pay them to play it. That's the fun of a 'sandbox' to us...the ability to kick that sand in other's faces. The crafting, building, etc. are very cool in this game and make it more worthwhile, but in the whole of our playstyle they are only a means to the end of being able to kick more sand faster. I'm not talking about griefing just to ruin someone elses day...rather conquering, pillaging, and killing others to make mine. That's what I like in a game and if it has a cool world and other fun features then so much the better. There are plenty of ways for the peaceful playerbase to thrive amidst the warlike if they care to work at it intelligently, but simply wanting to be left alone isn't one of them. Many here need to, and will, learn that lesson sooner or later. Pure griefing will certainly happen and we will all have to deal with it...and simply wishing it weren't so won't work there either.

So those of you who rage at the PvP'ers should turn your complaints to the devs where they might do some good. Tell them you really don't like all the sand and ask them to take it away. Maybe they'll listen. If so we'll all leave for sandier pastures and you can be left to play FarmyCraftville in peace. Untill then, and especially if you're the proverbial 98-lb weakling, get ready for a facefull of sand...or be willing to play the politics required to minimize it. It can be done you know.

[Dubanka]

Yeah but Dub, in all fairness the devlopers have stated PvP is not a priority for the game. It has PvP but it is not the focus. Perhaps down the line it might be but for the near future the game isn't going to be a mindless gankfest like some other 'open sandbox FFA PvP' games have become. That is waht attracted me. I love PvP but I want a game that places more priority on WHY we PvP then WHERE.

You know, you guys keep saying that..like a mantra.
Are we sure this isn't star wars?
This is not the pvp you were looking for
There is no pvp here, move along

While i would agree 100% that pvp is not the primary focus of the game, it is the ultimate outcome given the game design we've been exposed to.
- Scattered and depleteable resources: Check
- Economic system that consumes resources at a rapid pace: Check
- World building design that providers for player/guild ownership of assets: Check
- Player interaction model that minimally restricts player behavior: Check
- Extensive crafting models for armaments: Check

All these elements point towards conflict. You've got a reason (depleteable resources, that you need to make stuff), you have a motivation (keep your stuff, get the other guys, protect your turf), and you have the means (weapons, armor, lightly restricted pvp environment). Voila. A pvp game is borne.

Now, we are all in this knowing:
-the combat system is currently fubar. It sucks and it needs to be fixed. we know this and are here to help. who better to help make an awesome combat system than people who enjoy fighting each other
-there is a lot that still needs to be implemented. bows, 2h weapons, seige mechanics, territorial control models...we get it, we're here to help, and wiat for it.
-you can't pvp all the time. we get it. we know it. most of us have been doing this a long time, and understand crafting, logistics, etc. Heck, we even understand we need to play nice in the sandbox, lest we scare all the other kids away.

The problem is not 'us', it's 'you'. 'You' don't want 'us' here...period...no love, at all.

However, we don't particularly care how you feel, we're here because of the devs vision, and we feel that is complimentary to our purpose. Contrary to popular belief, we're not here to carry out a scorched earth policy...most of us have done that before and understand the consequences are generally negative to all...and in those games where we did do it...the GAME ENCOURAGED US TO DO IT...it was the game. Anyway, we're here because we want to be, we're here because we think our goals are in line with the devs vision...regardless of how you interpet it.

We come in peace, always.

[Soulwanderer]

But if pvp's on it might distract us from making useless armor, useless weapons, and useless buildings.

Don't forget the useless walls. =P

I agree that the main focus of the game shouldn't be PvP as the devs have stated. That doesn't mean it should be Crafting/PvE either. They seem to be trying to make this game as realistic as possible, and imo that's a much better goal. That's going to mean a world where Crafting, City Building, PvP, and Sieges all go hand in hand.

You want to PvP? Well you need to craft some weapons and armor first if you don't want to get slaughtered.

You want to Siege? Well first you need to build some Siege equipment and make sure you have enough in case your enemy destroys it.

You want to Craft? You're gonna need to be able to protect yourself and your resources to do that.

You want to build and keep your city? You're going to have to fortify it and invest in defenses in case some one decides to siege it.


That's a game that doesn't have a focus on anything but creating a real world style sandbox. They started off in the right direction. Let's just hope they can get where they need to fast enough to keep and gain some players.

[ifireallymust]

TRANSLATION: Anyone who engages in non-consensual PVP is a mean nasty griefer who doesn't play the way I want to play. These people have no business telling me how I should play. However, if they don't play the way I want them to play, I will cry to the devs until those players get banned for not playing the way I want them to play and for having the nerve to try to tell me how I should play.

Irony: it ain't just something de wife do to de shirts.

You could get away with that much better if I'd ever had a word of complaint against open pvp everywhere except in safe zones. You'd also have a more valid point if I hadn't been one of the first people to say I would try the war server and wait to try the peace server when that was still being kicked around. It's not pvp I have a problem with, even non-consensual pvp. It's the endlessly inventive, nasty, rotten things people come up with to ruin games for other people.

The zerg is my biggest peeve. Zergs don't just ruin games for players, they ruin games period. You can disagree with me on that if you want, what you can't do is paint me as pure carebear and pure anti-pvp. In light of my other posts, that will never hold up. I was sad the war server didn't happen, because I wanted to build something so difficult and annoying to crash through that it wouldn't ever be worth the bother just to grief one solo homesteader. Or anyway, I wanted to try. And I really do want the trenches and walls and moats we can make to have a purpose at some point.


And thanks, RedMorgan, but I can protect myself. Besides, I suspect, and I could be wrong on this one, that your 'protection' comes with strings attached.

[maelwydd]

Sorry, the problem isn't an 'us' vs 'you' thing. The developers have stated what kind of PvP they want. End of conversation really. And it isn't a mindless gankfest. If that means you won't enjoy it then all I can say is, sorry you don't agree with the vision the game developers have.

And I can be pretty sure that a game designer would only consider changing a mechanic in a game if it didn't deliver on it's design purpose or has an adverse effect of the games overall design. And I can also be pretty sure that a game designer will initially design something they see as balanced and it is the players who abuse or misuse the balance provided that mean the mechanic fails to meet the design purpose.

So ultimately, as much as people can continually blame the PvE'ers or carebears for these design changes, ultimately it is the very people who get so outraged at the changes that are the actual cause of the changes.

If I had to choose between: -

A brutally open PvP system with people that abuse the system
or
An artificially restricted system with people that just want to have fun while PvP'ing

I will choose the later.

Not because I think that the system is better, but because given the choice I prefer self moderation and playing with those that do too, even if the moderation is somewhat enforced.

[Surly]

PvP isn't a feature, it's the byproduct of a well made sandbox. Anyone who follows around indie games that advertise PvP as a feature will either wind up in a consensual PvP arena, or a game so completely devoid of every element of good gameplay that PvP is the only thing to do. In either case, there is no conflict, no reason for fighting, just a shallow gameplay experience identical in spirit to playing Call of Duty on an XBOX.

There are such people buzzing around practically every game out there, this one included. But if you're being called a carebear, and feel comfortable in the camp of players who just want to craft all day, try not to lump everyone who sees PvP as a means to creating a richer, deeper gaming experience into a pile with all the same sorts you associate with spawn camping and griefing all day. A sandbox is not a sandbox with artificial restrictions, and that goes both for combat and non-combat activities. If a game allows you to be spawn-camped and griefed, it is not a problem of lack of safezones or other restrictions, but lack of tools for you to deal with it. PvP is just a tool players can use to solve a certain set of problems, just as a shovel is a tool for solving the problem of uneven terrain for placing your stupid chief tent. Don't look at it as anything else, and certainly not as a threat to sandbox environments. It's quite the opposite.

[Redemp]

I think you folks are letting VD troll you a bit to obviously, note the immediate spin to make it an argument that you just hate pvp and because you hate pvp you think they are nasty griefers. ( Yeah I'm paraphrasing, but you get the gist )

Classic PvP troll : 1. I want this in PvP 2. Refute rebuttals with some form of " You're a carebear " insult. 3. Claim that any arguements for the latter, or justifications for said arguments are spurned by a deep seeded prejudice against all who pvp.

4. Thread locked by a Moderator

Edit : 5. Call said Troll on being a troll, and then claim its because they too hate pvp.

[ifireallymust]

I'm not going to say that those strings are attached to brutally demeaning acts of abusive carnality, but I ain't they're not either.

Oh hey! In that case, I'm bringin pizza!