Non Violent forms of PVP

[Sirius]

Now, I don't usually bother to engage in one of those "line by line demolitions of someone's inane argument", because all the necessary quoting takes up a lot of page space, but you are really asking for it.

And to Mr. Pipedream above you. Have you ever played a MMORPG where players actually police the game? I highly doubt it, considering most people want to play and have fun, not go around keeping griefers in check. Get your head out of your ass

Note the pointless insult! So, at this point in the discussion, you have just committed yourself to a ridiculous claim that players don't police the game in MMORPGs, and you challenge us to provide an example of a game where players did police the game. We are about to do exactly that. The discussion continues:

yes I have. It is clear you have not had the chance.

And yea, we've played MMOs where players police the game.. as a matter of fact, VD has repeatedly been insulted as the "server police" by people who didn't like getting stomped in retaliation for their lameness.

We both let you know that we've both actually played actual games where players actually do this. You remain unconvinced:

Please back that up. Which game do you speak of? I have had many chances, don't assume anything, it just makes you look even more dumb, and does nothing to hurt me or enrage me. I am laughing at you VDs the whole time. I just came in here to help the other person "whom I don't know btw", that you guys were ganging up on with your emo-grief logic. He was speaking of a hypothetical punishment system for griefers, and none of your arguments really discounted what he was saying. You just didn't get it. But it was a very good device to find out who some of the emo-griefers are. You came in here all defensive. Very funny stuff. See what I am doing here is called "non'violent" PVP. It is what the thread is about. I'm just playing you fools.

Note that your actual challenge ("Please back that up") only takes four words, yet you explode into a rambling paragraph of insults. Note also, the pointless insults!

I assume you have already played it.

You're being baited, giving you the opportunity to further dig yourself into a hole because you're so sure you're right.

Why won't you state the game which had players policing the game at all times? You seem very confident that you guys were the police on this game. Tell the community, so you can be properly dismissed as being full of it.

Seems like you realized you were about to be shown wrong, because you've already changed your argument to something that is easily disproven. This is called a "straw man argument". We never said we've played a game that literally had players policing the game 24/7. As I noted later, this wasn't necessary in Shadowbane, because siege and mine activity was restricted to primetime for NA players. A few solid hours a night was sufficient.

At least two games have had a system that allowed players to find people accountable for their in-game actions. I personally saw this in Shadowbane where doing something annoying/exploitive (Like teleporting into a solid object and capturing resources) got your city burnt to the ground.

What a lot of people think of, however, (and what this game reminds them of) is UO before they added a safe zone... you can read about that in the following blog I spent 2 seconds searching for.

Further explanation that yeah, VD has actually been there and actually done that (along with countless other SB players).

In shadowbane on the Vindication server, we were labeled the 'server police' because, well, we did what we thought we needed to do to keep the server healthy. ie. we worked to keep big people form smushing small people, and if someone got too big, would engage the war machine to (often times fighting against signicantly higher numbers) to force them to 'break'. We were ble to do this because we were competent and persistent on the offense, and one of the best on defense.

Not everyone liked our brand of justice and it got us in more than a few fights...and it came back to bite us on a server wipe, where we were welcomed to a server united against us...that didn't go well (but they got what they deserved, since their unholy alliance effectively destroyed the server...)

Even more detailed explanation that yeah, VD has actually been there and actually done that (along with countless other SB players).

Haha, you guys are so predictable. I knew you were shadowbane fanboys. That game is dead btw, so obviously player policing didn't help, plus I highly doubt you guys policed the server 24/7. You are just making up stuff now. Why don't you bring in a few more tribe members for the forum zerg. Shadowbane is dead get over it.

More pointless insults and irrelevant comments from you! I'm sure even you will notice that you didn't even attempt to rebut our argument. But you do somehow suggest that because Shadowbane didn't keep running forever, "obviously player policing didn't help". (Not that that makes any sense.) Regardless, Shadowbane was up for over 6 years.

Lol, yea, because VD didn't prevent every murderous act that could have taken place, there was no policing. That makes tons of sense! And anyway, NEWSFLASH, the game had siege windows and mine windows. It was completely unnecessary for anyone to "police the server 24/7", and the fact that you phrased it that way just shows you're thinking of something completely different. Fact is, VD and countless other players helped bring balance to the game, and that type of self-regulation turns out to be a much better system than "cry to a GM when something naughty happens".

Me pointing out your straw man argument. It was, simply put, unnecessary to have "24/7 policing". And, again, we never said we did that. The "24/7" thing didn't come until you changed your argument midway through the conversation.

What kind of nonsense are you spewing now? Who said anything about calling GMs? I was pointing out that player policing, while good in theory, is not now, nor has it ever been actually used to full effect in any game. You have not disproved this. In fact you lost the argument for yourself when you stated the fact that shadowbane had other mechanics besides player policing for control. You SB fanboys are quite delusional. Let it go, it was just a game. Sure a few things worked in that game. However, the same thing can be said for many other dead games.

I know it hurts, but let it go Sirius, the game is dead, this is not SB, and it is not the place to suggest ideas for Xsyon either. Good luck fluffy

Note the pointless insults as you add further straw to your straw man. So now it's not just "policing the server", nor even "policing the server 24/7", it's "policing the server 24/7 to 'full effect' in total absence of any GMs or other non-player policing". You've now changed your straw man into something incredibly easy to knock down – yet another argument we never made and would never make. And again, all you offer in response to our actual examples of effective player policing is insults. You've just been proven wrong, yet you are sitting there calling people names and declaring that you're right. It's cute, in an annoying, stupid way.

So, you have just been shown examples of a game in which players policed the server effectively.

Q E D

And the gameplay dynamics that emerged as a result were much better than what would emerge if the trend were to rely on the devs to make a nanny state rather than empowering players to take care of business on their own.

Do you and the other VD know how to read and comprehend what you are reading? I'm very sure you do not. I did not change any argument. I was disproving your argument about player policing and you guys did nothing to back up your BS about your feats as server police.

Vicid SB is dead. Let it go. I will probably run a couselling session for you and the other emotionally damaged SB leftovers. Apparently you guys cannot let go of your hurt feelings about that game, so much so, that you come in to other game forums to defend it.

Quoted strictly for the lolz factor of seeing you engage in yet more petty insults without having made a single line of genuine argument.

[Haphazard]

Just to quote another example of player's policing their own systems. In EVE, I played with an alliance called CVA, CVA's main purpose was to extend the "high security" zones of the Amarrian empire into the "null security" zone of providence.

CVA did this for a good long while, until they were finally ousted by a much larger zerg alliance. CVA protected all "neutral" pilots in the area so they could conduct peaceful trade and mining, while immediately engaging any "pirate" forces who would prey on the peaceful pilots.

[Sirius]

Wait for incoming post either saying you are making all this stuff up, or that "that's not policing the server", in 3... 2... 1...

(Oh, probably also some personal insults, too.)

[Killarai]

Whenever a game has no NPC policing, you get large military/policing guilds providing safety for those that need it, or they'll freelance work to smaller guilds for support.
You see this in most Sandbox MMO's.

[maelwydd]

Whenever a game has no NPC policing, you get large military/policing guilds providing safety for those that need it, or they'll freelance work to smaller guilds for support.
You see this in most Sandbox MMO's.

Wonder how much these guys will want to protect my land, buildings, baskets and contents while I am offline?

[Zenmaster13]

Wait for incoming post either saying you are making all this stuff up, or that "that's not policing the server", in 3... 2... 1...

(Oh, probably also some personal insults, too.)

Wow, you really took a long time and thought all that out. You seriously only believe in your own opinion and nothing else. You did the same thing with the previous poster. It is quite laughable and transparent.

Extending someones argument for further clarity, is not "changing" your argument. Nice try though. As I said, no game has ever had an effective player police force. Now if you are talking about extending in game mechanics, then that is another thing all together. Sure, as I stated before(but you seem to have missed that part in your rage), there have been a number of games where groups of players police the game some of the time. The emphasis is on "some" here though. This is the problem with your view, and you cannot come up with any argument to disprove it. Some is not enough unfortunately, so that is why games like EVE and SB and many others, have other mechanics besides player policing in order to help with griefers.

Just so you know, I have killed many a griefer in defense of non-fighters or whatever may be the situation. This is not the issue. You can''t be there all the time, thus the problem.

Finally, as to the insults. You really are taking all this too seriously. Any insults thrown your way were very lightweight. You are going to have to develop a thicker skin if you want to throw your own insults. I could quote many of your insulting responses (not just to me) and systematically tear them down the way you did, only much more effectively, but why bother? What a waste of time.

[Vicid]

This is really just getting uninteresting. Windows for asset destruction/capturing resources doesn't reduce the effectiveness of server policing at all. It only means that players can do said policing when everyone has a good chance to attack/defend.

It is still the players taking care of things. Sieges/destroying mines in SB was how you found other players accountable for their actions. If Xsyon does have resource capturing, asset destruction and sieges then it will need similar rule sets. Otherwise people will wake up to their city completely burnt to the ground without even knowing who attacked or why.

But I'm glad I could address the technicality that you've apparently come here to explain to us all.

[Sirius]

Wow, you really took a long time and thought all that out. You seriously only believe in your own opinion and nothing else. You did the same thing with the previous poster. It is quite laughable and transparent.

Extending someones argument for further clarity, is not "changing" your argument. Nice try though. As I said, no game has ever had an effective player police force. Now if you are talking about extending in game mechanics, then that is another thing all together. Sure, as I stated before(but you seem to have missed that part in your rage), there have been a number of games where groups of players police the game some of the time. The emphasis is on "some" here though. This is the problem with your view, and you cannot come up with any argument to disprove it. Some is not enough unfortunately, so that is why games like EVE and SB and many others, have other mechanics besides player policing in order to help with griefers.

Just so you know, I have killed many a griefer in defense of non-fighters or whatever may be the situation. This is not the issue. You can''t be there all the time, thus the problem.

Finally, as to the insults. You really are taking all this too seriously. Any insults thrown your way were very lightweight. You are going to have to develop a thicker skin if you want to throw your own insults. I could quote many of your insulting responses (not just to me) and systematically tear them down the way you did, only much more effectively, but why bother? What a waste of time.

You have the analytical ability, reading comprehension, and attention span of a sickly puppy. You stake yourself to stupid claims and argue like a drunkard, hurling epithets as a substitute for sensible commentary and repeatedly changing the details of your "arguments" as they are methodically shown to be ridiculous.

Buhbye.