Non Violent forms of PVP

[mrcalhou]

Excellent post Dubanka.

[ifireallymust]

It is obvious you are talking about yourself.

Is it? Well it is true, if the game becomes unfun, I will cease to play it. I'm not crazy, and I don't get paid to play.

It is also true, as Sirius pointed out, that some people may find they enjoy more pvp than they thought they would and will discover this through the warm attentions of a persistent PKer.

However, many will never find certain styles of pvp enjoyable. It seems that the style this game currently has, and is scheduled to have for the next 6-9 months at least is not enjoyable for some of the people in this thread due to restrictions on their actions. I perfectly understand this, and fully support your right to express any lack of enjoyment you may experience.

I have noted in my calendar that on today's date, at 12:46 pm eastern, you have predicted that people like me will find ourselves in the minority. However, I require clarification. What exactly constitutes 'people like me'. I know it has to do with a pvp ruleset and our enjoyment of it, or lack thereof, could you specify, in some detail, the ruleset that the majority will find themselves approving of?

[maelwydd]

In other words, it doesn't support whatever arguments and conclusions you have been making here.

Be ignorant if you want, at least we know why you are like you are now.

[r4NGe]

I have noted in my calendar that on today's date, at 12:46 pm eastern, you have predicted that people like me will find ourselves in the minority. However, I require clarification. What exactly constitutes 'people like me'. I know it has to do with a pvp ruleset and our enjoyment of it, or lack thereof, could you specify, in some detail, the ruleset that the majority will find themselves approving of?

By no means do I think that people like you will be in the minority, but if majority rule determined every game, they would all be the same. I just think people like you are the lowest common denominator. You want stuff easier and easier until a game is a Staples Easy button. That is when you quit.

[ifireallymust]

Dubanka, who exactly is calling for an end to open PvP outside our 'mud huts' as you say?

I have yet to see anyone argue for an end to open PvP.

Griefers, however, are not tolerated. It is up to the staff and not the players, however, to determine what constitutes griefing. Dontaze's OP is a perfect example of why it's the staff of Notorious who decide whether or not something is griefing.

Dontaze ended the post with: Who can think of more ways to hurt people without actually hurting them?

The sentence has at least four possible interpretations:

1. Dontaze wants to find ways to hurt people without actually hurting them means Dontaze wants to make the person controlling the character angry in ways other than killing their character, since he can't get to their character in their safe zone, and since at the moment, pvp is entirely off. This might be considered griefing, since it is aimed at the player and not the character and is intended to evoke a negative emotional reaction in the player. And Dontaze intended to communicate his intention to evoke those emotions in people and did so in his post.

2. Dontaze wants to find ways to evoke a negative emotional reaction in other players but did not intend to be so up front about it in his wording.

3. Dontaze neither wants to evoke negative emotional reactions in other players, nor did he intend to mislead others into thinking he does want to.

4. Dontaze does not want to evoke negative emotional reactions in other players, but he did intend to mislead others into thinking that he does want to. (This might be considered trolling, depending on his reasons for being misleading.)

As a player, I have no way of knowing which of the four applies. But the staff has access to information I don't, such as who is Dontaze in game, what other accounts are owned by Dontaze and/or members of his household, what else has Dontaze said on this issue, what has Dontaze done in game?

If Dontaze is actually accused in game of griefing, I'm sure his posts will be taken into consideration when it's time to determine if the accusation has merit.

[Sirius]

Be ignorant if you want, at least we know why you are like you are now.

LOL after reading it I can see it doesn't even come close to supporting the silly arguments you're making.

Now I understand why you were hoping to just post it without having to explain how it shows you're right. It doesn't.

[ifireallymust]

By no means do I think that people like you will be in the minority, but if majority rule determined every game, they would all be the same. I just think people like you are the lowest common denominator. You want stuff easier and easier until a game is a Staples Easy button. That is when you quit.

I take from this two things:

1. You believe that I am typical in what I do and don't find enjoyable in an MMO.

2. You have a negative opinion about what typical MMO players find to be enjoyable.

[Dubanka]

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...full=1#post223

Good reading, especially points made by the game developers.

What points made by developers?

The only one of note, besides xsyon laying out the proposed system was:

if you wish to not PVP in this game it is suggested that you stay in or around the village. or when you go somewhere have an armed escort.

otherwise it was just virtus telling people to stay on topic or to be nice.

It's obvious from the initial post (a year ago) that there was still some uncertainty as to what penalties would be...we haven't seen anything definitive about that. I mean

Unconsciousness results in very minor skill loss and in general the victor will be allowed to loot an item of choice as a reward for a fight well fought.

- Not implemented

- Killing or looting a person that is not in an enemy tribe will cause severe reputation loss with the other tribe and within your own tribe.

- not implemented...heck can't even declare a tribe enemy.

Players from an evil tribe are free to loot and pillage and will gain reputation within their own tribe for doing so, but they will also be vulnerable to attacks from all players who will be able to attack evil players without negative consequences. Players in good or neutral tribes will be allowed to put bounty quests on known evil players. In essence, if a tribe chooses to be evil they become the ‘monsters’ of the world.

- this is cool, but not implemented

Tribes can choose different levels of diplomacy with each other.

Players from friendly or allied tribes can fight each other, but only to unconsciousness and without looting capability.

Players from rival tribes can fight each other to unconsciousness with partial loot to the victor. Potentially the amount of looting can be agreed upon by rival tribes. (Setting the amount of looting is not currently implemented, but it’s something I am considering).

Players from enemy tribes at war can fight to the death with full looting (Potentially tribe leaders can come to a looting agreement for this as well).

- not implemented and not realistically possible (I WANT TO MAKE YOU MY ENEMEY. no. PLEASE. no.) and not implemented.

I mean the entire initial post had some neat concepts, but ones that would be really tough to implement in the game world. The general gist behind it all tho, is the pvp, or tribal conflict, is an integral part of the game...he is jsut trying to mitigate (based on alignment) the extent to which a player woudl be vulnerable to its negative side effects. Again, real tough road to walk there, since the more negative you make it to be a killer, the more incentivized the killer becomes to not lose.


Anyway, the only difference between that discussion, and this one, is it's obvious that beta world 1 year ago was populated by a lot few players who favored pvp oriented gameplay...so of course that discussion was controlled by the pve proponents who mostly shouted down the pvp types (my favorite line was, ...how is it a sand box if i can't craft and build in peace....

[Sirius]

I take from this two things:

1. You believe that I am typical in what I do and don't find enjoyable in an MMO.

2. You have a negative opinion about what typical MMO players find to be enjoyable.

Though I don't speak for that guy, I assume his response would be YES, AND BTW games with non-consensual PVP and full loot are not built for "typical MMO players".

[r4NGe]

Though I don't speak for that guy, I assume his response would be YES, AND BTW games with non-consensual PVP and full loot are not built for "typical MMO players".

Agreed.


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