AFK actions

[Mactavendish]

Have you ever heard the phrase... "Me thinks he protests too much"?

Many time the very ones shouting the loudest about macroing are the ones that have been doing it all along, and now that they have finished macroing a skill, the want it to be unavailable to others... thus giving THEM an advantage.

Running against a wall or rock will indeed level your running, but running around on roads will do it much faster.

Just feel sorry for those that have no life and like to watch their toon running in place.

[blackzilla]

Have you ever heard the phrase... "Me thinks he protests too much"?

Many time the very ones shouting the loudest about macroing are the ones that have been doing it all along, and now that they have finished macroing a skill, the want it to be unavailable to others... thus giving THEM an advantage.

Running against a wall or rock will indeed level your running, but running around on roads will do it much faster.

Just feel sorry for those that have no life and like to watch their toon running in place.

Found a rock in the middle of the road, we called it the running rock club. We ad about 10 of us all using it and we could all high 5 each other was an awesome night.

[Sirius]

Have you ever heard the phrase... "Me thinks he protests too much"?

Many time the very ones shouting the loudest about macroing are the ones that have been doing it all along, and now that they have finished macroing a skill, the want it to be unavailable to others... thus giving THEM an advantage.

Running against a wall or rock will indeed level your running, but running around on roads will do it much faster.

Just feel sorry for those that have no life and like to watch their toon running in place.

"Lol, you're macro'ing, because I said so."

"No, actually I'm not."

"Uhm, yeah you are. And now you're lying about it, too."

This is pure comedy. Some people are so sure that everyone who disagrees with their silly ideas is a cheater.

You can rest assured that (1) I don't macro in this game, because it's against the rules; (2) I don't autorun to skillup, because it's boring; (3) the idea of banning people for skilling by autorunning is silly.

[Jadzia]

I see lots wrong with AFK macroers - report em and then skin em is what I say. Darkfall was ruined because of them.

Agree. AFK macroing should be dealt with asap.

[cod3r_]

I see lots wrong with AFK macroers - report em and then skin em is what I say. Darkfall was ruined because of them.

no dude.. the horrible grind killed darkfall.. and the fact that you need every single skill maxed out to compete.. which is a balance issue.. People just macroed to keep up..

as i said earlier.. if the game requires macros that is a fundamental flaw with the game. if a macroer can afk run against a wall and skill his run to max in a week but it takes a normal person playing the game 10 weeks.. that is a serious flaw.. that's what needs to be balanced.. can't just ban off everyone who macros if the game is such a boring grind that you gota macro..

[Zenmaster13]

no dude.. the horrible grind killed darkfall.. and the fact that you need every single skill maxed out to compete.. which is a balance issue.. People just macroed to keep up..

as i said earlier.. if the game requires macros that is a fundamental flaw with the game. if a macroer can afk run against a wall and skill his run to max in a week but it takes a normal person playing the game 10 weeks.. that is a serious flaw.. that's what needs to be balanced.. can't just ban off everyone who macros if the game is such a boring grind that you gota macro..

No game requires you to macro. If it did, it would advertise it. "You need macros to play this game it's Macro Online". If a game is so boring to you, that you feel you must macro, then you really need to find a more exciting game, otherwise you are just a masochist.

I would like to hear your suggestion on how to balance a game against macroing.

Why people would pay a monthly sub to have macros running is beyond reasoning. It is just a gimme response from the instant gratification crowd.

[redrazor]

I can answer that altough I never macroed in my life.

People macro because they want to be "The Top Dog"

They play just to be able to bolster sentences like "I capped my toon's running in 2 hours" or "I got the greatest PK combat toon build ever and I built him in 3 days. I pawnz U!"

Thats how people have fun these days. Their real lifes are so intensilly miserable that the only escape from the idea of just killing yourself is hiding in a game and pretending to be something you'll never be out there: Someone that matters to anyone.

So they do everything possible to capture atention. Because they lack imagination, they see capping and beeing "The Top Dog" as the only viable way of capturing any atention whatsoever, so they go for it.

But beeing very good at something, even in a game takes time, and needs effort put into it. So people look for a way to work around this. Hence, they use macros. If thats not enough, they bitch to the devs for more junk/more sand/more baskets/faster skill leveling/faster bar when using a skill/better drops/more drops/easier terraforming/basket recipes for everyone/whatever facies you today. Im even surprised I havent seen anyone ask a dev for a fully built capped character...oh wait...tahts where Gold Farmer companies come in...because of course...if people werent buying that level capped super dupper character, they wouldn't be selling it, now would they.

Sad, but true...

EDITED: Concerning Lag..
Perhaps...just perhaps, Devs should be looking into how people are macroiing in Xsyon. Maybe if a few folks get banned the lag could possible and magically improve...just maybe.

I dont know, if actions are causing lag...maybe if an action gets sent to the server every 7 seconds...that might cause some choking...no?

[Sirius]

I don't suppose you actually played Darkfall, eh?

Regardless, I'd imagine that balancing the game against macroing would be a lot easier than effectively and reliably identifying macro'ers... and the playerbase would benefit as a whole, because instead of having a mindless grind that's just begging to be macro'd, there might be a more interesting system that actually provides some feedback and interaction (you know -- something to do).

This, I think, is more or less the same point Coder was making.

Added after 7 minutes:

Maybe if a few folks get banned the lag could possible and magically improve...just maybe.

I dont know, if actions are causing lag...maybe if an action gets sent to the server every 7 seconds...that might cause some choking...no?

Very difficult to pay serious attention to commenter who says something like this. You realize that half the game is clicking the same action button over and over again, right? At most you'd be talking about a flat increase of activity for a few players, not some game-changing lag bomb. The ping problems you're seeing are due to the need for optimization, not the crushing impact of macro'ers.

[Rutaq]

No game requires you to macro. If it did, it would advertise it. "You need macros to play this game it's Macro Online". If a game is so boring to you, that you feel you must macro, then you really need to find a more exciting game, otherwise you are just a masochist.

I would like to hear your suggestion on how to balance a game against macroing.

Why people would pay a monthly sub to have macros running is beyond reasoning. It is just a gimme response from the instant gratification crowd.

Hmm, I think you are looking at the Macroing the wrong way. The majority of players do not macro because they enjoy it. They do it for power.


Let me break it down for you...

Xsyon Character advancement:

1) In skill point based systems the higher your skill rating the more powerful or useful the skill.
2) Skill points are gained through a repetitive use of an action.
3) Most game actions are a simple key press followed by waiting a couple seconds. They are not very engaging and not very fun.


So now that we have defined the basic systems of play / advancement lets move on to how a player would macro.

1) Most game controllers and even gaming mice have the ability to run a simple macro that presses a key ever X seconds.
2) For more complex actions programs like AutoIt or AutoHotKey can let you build complex macros that can even track variables, analyze screen pixels and replicate mouse movements.


Ok, so we know How your character becomes more powerful, We know how to set up a macro and the last thing to cover is the Why a player would macro ?


Players are by nature competitive, they want their character to be better, richer, tougher than everyone else. Skill advancement is not engaging and not fun.

Macros are tempting because:

1) Macros give them ability to make their character better without having to give 100% of your focus to the repetitive tasks in the game. You can watch a movie, make dinner, do laundry and just check in on your character once in a while.

2) Complex Macros can automate much of the simple character building game play. This can be handy when you are sleeping , at school or at work. Imagine playing for 6 hours with your friends but then your character continues gains skill points for 18 hours while you are sleep and at work.



At the end of the day it is important for the Developers of a game to acknowledge Marcos and define their policy. Macros are not new they have been around since UO and it is unfortuante that the Xsyon launched without a clearly defined policy around them.

So now we have a PvP sandbox game with players looking to get an edge over each other and players that dislike Macroing feeling like they will fall behind if they don't use them. Suddenly Marcoing becomes the norm and the players that dislike Macroing feel forced to do it and can even develop a dislike for the game itself for the encouragement of skill advancement by Macroing.


The Devs have some work to do...

1) They need to clearly state what the official policy is regarding Macroing.
2) If they forbid Macroing or at least unattended Macroing. Then they need to devise a system to enforce the rules.

One of the easiest systems to design is a /report function players can use, that can help flag accused player activity and who /reported them. Sadly unless there is extensive logging or a force Captcha system a GM or In game staff person will have to do the leg work to investigate reported macroing. The /report function tied to a secret in game reward for players that successfully identify players breaking can be a quick and relatively effective system.

Secretly rewarding a player that reports an AFK Marcoer with some token like a handful of free skill points is key. You would be surprised how often players will report others for Macroing when the get even a token reward and can be anonymous.



Personally, I dislike Marcoing and I think it puts useless strain on the server. But if Xsyon doesn't take a stand on it soon, then it will fall victim to it just like Darkfall did where 1 year after launch they finally tried to address the problem and in the end had to redesign and re-balance the skill advancement to deal with the Hyper skill point inflation the Marcoing caused.

[Sirius]

2) If they forbid Macroing or at least unattended Macroing. Then they need to devise a system to enforce the rules.

Quoted for emphasis. And, the CAPTCHA idea is intriguing -- perhaps the only thing that could reliably work? (Or at least, potentially a very cheap and easy mechanism that would produce few or no false positives.)

I'd envision a reporting system where a flagged player can be confronted by a Guide, who will then lock down that player's conduct with a CAPTCHA. No ban occurs, but the player can't do anything else until he answers the CAPTCHA. Sounds to me like that might work like a charm.