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  1. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius View Post
    This was the core of my idea. Make it manageable for players to deal with this on their own. I'm against hard-coded restrictions, or direct GM intervention, wherever it's not genuinely needed. It not only wastes the devs' time, it nurtures a player base that will come to expect everything to be done for them.
    unfortunately most players here seem to be used to games that do everything for them, they don't relish the concept of holding other people accountable for their actions, they'd rather have the devs do it for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haladmer View Post
    To the OP, Yes, yes it is.



    Thank you, common sense! (Seriously)

    I apologize in advance, because this is gonna be a rude reply/rant to those who want a system to "protect them" or "even the playing field"...

    You have the tools, you have a brain (which should be understood to be included in the Tools, but just in case), use them.

    Just because there isn't an OBVIOUS solution doesn't mean the dev's need to change the game. Eve gets thrown around a lot on these forums as an example of how to do "X" system. Last time I played Eve, a lot of this same ass-hattery occurred there, the difference was that people there seem to have understood that what is used against them can be used back.

    Why is a sci-fi/futuristic game okay to have this level of common sense, but a post-apocalyptic game has to have everyone singing Koomba-ya and drinking the fizzy-sugar water?

    Hell, dig a giant pit around "your" trees, and leave only 1 ramp in/out that is walled off into the center of your town. Or even leave the ramp out and only put it back when you need it.

    The moral of this rant is, the developers gave you the tools, the system gives you a base set of rules, and (I hope) your teachers taught you how to think, so do so.

    ::Goes back to the crafter section muttering about whippersnappers and a lot less polite things::
    heh teachers stopped teaching critical thinking skills years ago...so did parents for that matter.

    It's not all the whippersnappers's fault.

  2. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Proto View Post
    heh teachers stopped teaching critical thinking skills years ago...so did parents for that matter.

    It's not all the whippersnappers's fault.
    Off-topic:
    Yeah, I've noticed that with my Chem I honors, Chem II honors, and Chem I classes. They need their hands held for everything. Last week I gave the honors I section an assignment to work in pairs to research the material that I was going to ask them questions on. The next day I get: "I don't know that! You didn't teach it to me!" It's like they need to be told everything and can't think for themselves. Ugh, I want to /facepalm.

    Edit: A lot of this comes from the earlier grades pushing students to get advanced and masteries on "the test." Which is almost all multiple-choice. All they need to do is bubble in a correct answer. They don't need to understand something. They just need to know it. I almost failed out my freshman year of college because while I "knew" a lot of stuff, I didn't understand enough to be able to form reasonable opinions and back them up. I'm seeing that with my students now. They can do fine with recall, but have them create something and it's a nightmare.

  3. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcalhou View Post
    Off-topic:
    Yeah, I've noticed that with my Chem I honors, Chem II honors, and Chem I classes. They need their hands held for everything. Last week I gave the honors I section an assignment to work in pairs to research the material that I was going to ask them questions on. The next day I get: "I don't know that! You didn't teach it to me!" It's like they need to be told everything and can't think for themselves. Ugh, I want to /facepalm.
    Unfortunately it's not just internet blather, it's a real problem in this country and no one with any power to fix the problem in schools (unfortunately home is rarely better) can't seem to figure out omg why are our kids dropping out at record numbers or why are our test scores plummeting towards those of a third world country. bah. /facepalm indeed.

    Back on topic though, yeah the players need to learn how to hold people accountable for their actions, not let the game do it for them.

  4. #134
    Ok this is coming from a guy that had this happend to..

    Stop crying and go find.

    there are 0 tress in our zone and the zone next to our zone and the zone that is to the right of us...

    Do you know what we did?

    we went 20 guys on a 5 mint walk and found a forest we got wood for one mounth.

  5. #135
    I had a nice chat with on of the guides, who asked devs directly of what is allowed and what is not:

    - Moving totems around by 5, 6, 7 people that hop from temp tribe to temp tribe to be able to terraform land around anyone is allowed even if it means building a huge wall around someone and cornering him completely
    - Destroying all in game resources by any means (allowed in game) possible is allowed. You can destroy stumps, junk piles, block rivers, destroy grass... Everything goes.

    So don't bitch too much, rather find a way to get back to those who maltreated you. Payback is much sweeter if you do it yourself (using game mechanics, not going to his door with PMX bat in your hand). Here are some things you can do to anyone destroying your resources (as allowed by game and mod rules).

    Form a temp tribe of 10 people with showels. Place a totem next to tribe or homestead you want to grief. As close as possible, preferably close to some key resource like river or junkpile. Clear everything up, dig up a huge hole or raise a huge dirt wall on that piece of land and get rid of all dirt you have. Holes work well if close to a river, no tribe likes to be surrounded by huge water ditches with not enough dirt to cover it up. Then have all but tribe leader leave the tribe and form a new one right next to the first one. Do it 5-6 times to make sure everything around tribe you want to grief is ruined and terraformed, no trees are left, water sources are moved (if possible), no junk or grass is left and nothing to do there except to move out. If you are lucky that tribe you want to grief is close to elevated water source (river that flows downstream with few waterfalls) you are lucky as leading water down will auto generate 100x more dirt then you can ever bring with yuorself. This will allow you to create huge natural walls (mountain sized if you know how to do it) that no one can fix without investing months of terraforming in it.

    If they take days to fix it (water and elevation, resources are permanently destroyed) do it again as soon as they are done. 10 people can ruin a landscape in just few hours and it would take 10 people much longer to fix it.

    I'm not saying you should do it, I personaly despise any form of griefing and misusing game mechanics to ruin game experience for others. I'm sayint this is all possible and allowed by game and mod rules. You will not get banned or warned for making barren lands around anyone. And if there is nothing else for you to do to get back to those who griefed you this is how you can do it and enjoy it as they can not touch you in your own tribe lands (hoping tribes is easy).

  6. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Proto View Post
    Unfortunately it's not just internet blather, it's a real problem in this country and no one with any power to fix the problem in schools (unfortunately home is rarely better) can't seem to figure out omg why are our kids dropping out at record numbers or why are our test scores plummeting towards those of a third world country. bah. /facepalm indeed.

    Back on topic though, yeah the players need to learn how to hold people accountable for their actions, not let the game do it for them.

    America's public education system was proposed for 2 reasons:

    1. To find and nurture the rare geniuses, even those among the poor (or at least the male, white poor).

    2. To condition all others to accept their lot in life.


    When was the last time critical thinking (or much of any thinking at all) made McWorkers better at their jobs?

    Dish out the Prozac, the MMOs, and the reality TV, hope some of the basic math sticks for the cash register slaves, and then pray like hell none of them ever thinks an original thought as long as they live is more what our society and its schools have to aim for now.

    Unless, of course, revolution is the goal.

  7. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Daeish View Post
    I agree with wolfmoon, that this would be a good solution.

    Either that, or make trees regrow even without the stump.

    This. I didn't even know trees regrew from stumps until just now. I was destroying every stump I saw just because I found them an eyesore. Trees should regrow without stumps unless they are within a homestead/tribe. Also there should be a skill allowing the planting of trees.

  8. #138
    Yesterday morning, there was a whole, nice forest growing near VD's camp.

    As you looked around this morning, it seemed that every single tree, log, or stump from the edge of the VD camp outward to halfway up the surrounding mountains had been clearcut. Place looks kinda bare now.

    Imagine that. Musta been...oh...I dunno...80 trees total or so. Golly.

    Irreplaceable? An ecological disaster? Time will tell.

    Thinking Alien death ray from space, myself.

  9. #139
    Xsyon Citizen
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    I applaud you for stepping up to do what needed to be done.

    And anyway, trees make my FPS even worse.

  10. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    I had a nice chat with on of the guides, who asked devs directly of what is allowed and what is not:

    - Moving totems around by 5, 6, 7 people that hop from temp tribe to temp tribe to be able to terraform land around anyone is allowed even if it means building a huge wall around someone and cornering him completely
    - Destroying all in game resources by any means (allowed in game) possible is allowed. You can destroy stumps, junk piles, block rivers, destroy grass... Everything goes.

    So don't bitch too much, rather find a way to get back to those who maltreated you. Payback is much sweeter if you do it yourself (using game mechanics, not going to his door with PMX bat in your hand). Here are some things you can do to anyone destroying your resources (as allowed by game and mod rules).

    Form a temp tribe of 10 people with showels. Place a totem next to tribe or homestead you want to grief. As close as possible, preferably close to some key resource like river or junkpile. Clear everything up, dig up a huge hole or raise a huge dirt wall on that piece of land and get rid of all dirt you have. Holes work well if close to a river, no tribe likes to be surrounded by huge water ditches with not enough dirt to cover it up. Then have all but tribe leader leave the tribe and form a new one right next to the first one. Do it 5-6 times to make sure everything around tribe you want to grief is ruined and terraformed, no trees are left, water sources are moved (if possible), no junk or grass is left and nothing to do there except to move out. If you are lucky that tribe you want to grief is close to elevated water source (river that flows downstream with few waterfalls) you are lucky as leading water down will auto generate 100x more dirt then you can ever bring with yuorself. This will allow you to create huge natural walls (mountain sized if you know how to do it) that no one can fix without investing months of terraforming in it.

    If they take days to fix it (water and elevation, resources are permanently destroyed) do it again as soon as they are done. 10 people can ruin a landscape in just few hours and it would take 10 people much longer to fix it.

    I'm not saying you should do it, I personaly despise any form of griefing and misusing game mechanics to ruin game experience for others. I'm sayint this is all possible and allowed by game and mod rules. You will not get banned or warned for making barren lands around anyone. And if there is nothing else for you to do to get back to those who griefed you this is how you can do it and enjoy it as they can not touch you in your own tribe lands (hoping tribes is easy).
    Better yet put the dirt on the totem as a quest and then pull up and leave. If I believed this to be true for one second I would begin Operation: Waterworld... This is not how the devs wanted their game to turn out I'm sure. Some barren monstrosity of earthen walls and sinkholes. These tactics are viable in the right situations, but are clearly just griefing most of the time. I guess the definition of griefing comes down to motive and intent. If you are doing it for the lolz and to make someone rage then you are griefing. If it is used as a military strategy then it is simply a good tactic. The devs will have to decide where the line is if they want their game to survive.

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