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  1. #21
    As in almost every PvP game you get things like this, that the community will find to use as tactic.

    Chop down all the trees in your enemies area.
    Pave over their junk piles (I'm betting you haven't had this yet).

    Numerous other things that can be done. And yes, either it's intended, which I believe it is partially intended, or not realized the full extent of what can happen. In either case, you can just wait for clarification of the intent, or for a fix. Other than that, additional debate probably won't serve much more purpose.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    The trees should grow back in 24 hours. That would solve the problem quickly without any need of coding.
    Why 24 hours? That number seems a bit arbitrary. Maybe 20 hours would be better for balance or 12. Or 2. Maybe 3.5.

    I know I sound like a broken record, but I think Eve has a good system for stuff like this. First off there are a good bit of asteroids in any given Solar System (for the most part) and any asteroid takes a good bit of time to completely mine out. Now, it's perfectly possible to strip mine an area. In fact, strip mining happens a lot. But it takes time to do it.

    Eventually asteroids respawn (they do this during server maintenence), but instead of following a set timer to respawn somewhere they all respawn at the same time. This way it'll take time to completely strip mine an area again. If a tree respawns every 24 hours, or even on a set time since it was felled, then you could just have people camp the areas and the area would stay stripped, because as soon as one spawned it would be chopped down. Not a good solution in my opinion.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    The trees should grow back in 24 hours. That would solve the problem quickly without any need of coding.
    Hm. That seems viable, though it places a minor inconvenience on the people who purposefully want specific trees removed and defeats the purpose of being able to remove stumps to begin with.

    If it's that or nothing, I'll take that, personally.

  4. #24
    ummm if you dont like your neighbors move. Simple solution. And dont tell me ppl follow you around just to grief you, aint buying.

  5. #25
    Have you ever tried to dig up a stump in real life? Its f***ing difficult as hell! Make removing stumps a 5 minute cool-down that saps all your energy. Ive had to dig stumps myself that have taken two days without a stump grinder.

    Spoken with truth.

  6. #26
    Yeah i know ignored the rest of your dissertation, i don't care about it. I'm currently only replying to this very deluded logic right here:

    Quote Originally Posted by madea View Post
    but considering that both the PvPer and the non-PvPer are paying customers, both have an equal right to play. The difference between the two is that my style of play doesn't require interfering with the gaming of others.
    Thats where you're wrong. The kind of change you want is accommodating to YOUR playstyle, not everyones. Least of all people who aren't scared of fighting back, which im assuming you must be, because you never mentioned your attempt to fight back, deforest their outlying area, grief them back, etc. Instead of dealing with your personal issues personally, you want the game to change around you. Im sorry this is not a micro-habitat that only affects you and your crafter club.

    The freedom that this kind of griefing promotes allows for a more dynamic world that forces you to deal with situations that aren't easy, they aren't nice, and they don't have happy simply solutions like more safe zones and more restrictions.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by madea View Post
    Hm. That seems viable, though it places a minor inconvenience on the people who purposefully want specific trees removed and defeats the purpose of being able to remove stumps to begin with.

    If it's that or nothing, I'll take that, personally.
    People should only be able to dig out stumps inside their own tribe area, and the trees shouldn't grow back if the stump is removed.

    @mrcalhou: 24 hours was only a guesstimation of course It can be more or less, and the respawn should be random inside the given time frame, be it 24-48 hours (only an example). So a tree could regrow 25 hours after it was cut, but it might happen that it only regrow after 47 hours.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Deatu View Post
    Have you ever tried to dig up a stump in real life? Its f***ing difficult as hell! Make removing stumps a 5 minute cool-down that saps all your energy. Ive had to dig stumps myself that have taken two days without a stump grinder.

    Spoken with truth.
    Have you ever seen a tree grow out of a stump that would be useful for anything in any short amount of time, in real life?

    Have you ever just poured gasoline on a stump and burned it out?

    I agree that it should take longer than a second to destroy things, and I think that applies to everything on the ground, piles, logs, stumps, rocks, etc.

  9. #29
    Perma-Death with heir system would slow down random pk tribes. Right now it's ridiculously easy to grief new players straight out of the game.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelTEE3 View Post
    Yeah i know ignored the rest of your dissertation, i don't care about it. I'm currently only replying to this very deluded logic right here:



    Thats where you're wrong. The kind of change you want is accommodating to YOUR playstyle, not everyones. Least of all people who aren't scared of fighting back, which im assuming you must be, because you never mentioned your attempt to fight back, deforest their outlying area, grief them back, etc. Instead of dealing with your personal issues personally, you want the game to change around you. Im sorry this is not a micro-habitat that only affects you and your crafter club.

    The freedom that this kind of griefing promotes allows for a more dynamic world that forces you to deal with situations that aren't easy, they aren't nice, and they don't have happy simply solutions like more safe zones and more restrictions.
    Actually, I concede the point about my style of play not interfering; you are correct, making it harder for a PvPer to screw with me is definitely interference. But don't assume that I'm sitting here wringing my wrists over the perceived injustice; I just want to know if they really intend for it to be this easy for griefers to grief while it is very hard to not grief, and that's skewed no matter how you slice it.

    However, the rest is still a false argument. Zero-sum scorched earth tactics are counterproductive to the ultimate goal, which is a sustainable game world, no?

    You assertions are based on the assumption that the people who did this care if we do the same thing back to them, but you are incorrect that there is anything I can do. You cannot claim that if only I would PvP or grief back, these sorts of tactics would stop. That's not how it has ever worked in any PvP game. When you subscribe to PvP you subscribe to that style of play fully; there is no room for other play. Aggression provokes counter aggression provokes ever increasing conflict that only ends when someone gets bored and stops playing. I've been there before, and I basically don't have the kind of free time necessary for constant vigilance.

    This isn't a real survival situation and we all have real lives we must attend to, ergo, some compromise will occur.

    I am trying to espouse a system that doesn't rob PvPers completely of their ability to effectively do what they want. You seem to be espousing a "PvPers get to have free reign, everyone else needs to GTFO" system, and that's the wrong answer, buddy. If you aren't interested in meeting the "carebears" halfway, then the likelihood that everyone walks away unhappy is that much more likely.

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