Law vs Chaos

[xyberviri]

Personally I believe that jails will never be implemented in Xsyon, so my opinion about jails is supposed to be meant in general.

I think a jail system if implemented properly could be very fun. Let's say a PKer is caught and players can choose to kill him or send him to jail. The jail could be implemented like this:

The player is teleported to a cell. He has to figure out how to make a shovel (the needed parts are hidden in the cell and he needs to find and craft it). After getting the shovel he has to picklock the lock (should be a puzzle-like thing, something that requires to use his brain). Outside of his cell he needs to kill the guard then he can start to dig himself out by digging a tunnel (getting terraforming exp for that). Through his tunnel he gets into a big tunnel filled with animals/zombies/whatever, he has to fight his way through (getting combat exp). He could loot and cook the animals' meat to get food and to heal himself. He may find valuable stuffs left there by former, less lucky prisoners. If he gets killed he goes back to his cell and starts over, but it should be balanced as in not impossible to get out, with proper preparation and cautiousness he should be able to get out without dieing. At the end of the tunnel he should dig again and find himself beside his own totem.

The big tunnel should be a maze, a place where its easy to get lost or run in circles. Getting out of the jail could take like 2-3-4 ingame days.

A system like this would be much more fun imo than loosing stat/skill points when dieing.

That does not sound fun in anyway, also if some one runs at you swinging a axe but hits you first then kills you, technically you became the pker.

Its very simple right now, if some one comes at you, run on to your land and they can not hurt you, you can kill them however and they go away. no reason to add rules for things for a mechanic that is already in game.

[Sirius]

I don't think you do, because you and your lovers keep trolling all day long. I'm keeping you morons busy at least. Nothing like dragging a bunch of internet losers around, letting them think they are smart, etc. amusing while I take a break from programming.

You seem to think that you are God's gift to intelligence because you have some programming experience? Kids in middle school do that nowadays, brosef. Regardless, you're a twit. Much love <3

[maelwydd]

the OP Jail mechanic is just a excuse for people that want to pvp with out pvping, its also something that will be abused by people who do pvp.

Well for a start I said a possible mechanic for capturing someone on your own tribal and could be the knock them unconsious, so you would need to be able to PvP to do it. So no, this isn't a proposal for people to pvp without pvping.

2nd, seeing as you can only enforce the laws in your own tribal lands I fail to see how someone can force you to enter their lands if you don't want to. I always thought the 2 main arguments with safe zones were 1 - total immunity (this proposal removes total immunity but still provides players with a way to deter and enforce their security, even those not just for the pvp) and 2 - if you enter into another tribes lands you cannot do anything (this porposal removes the inability to attack another tribe but allows them to protect themselves).

You laws are already in game, you see some one you tell them to leave and if they dont you kill them. your tribe mates are your guards. there are way too many ways to exploit this suggestion.

There are no laws in the game yet. At least not in the sence of having a list available for others to be able to read. And the point is, if you don't want to kill someone (perhaps because one of your laws is that you will not tollerate killing on your own tribal lands) then what can you do?

Please explain how an attacker can exploit this system. I would like to know where I may be lacking in understanding.

Also, please explain if the devs actually design the tools to allow this how it could be considered exploitable? If the devs say "here are a set of laws you can switch on for your own tribal lands and here are the associated punishments we feal are reasonable" then I don't really see what the problem is.

instead of suggesting ways to impose law on some one else go and enforce it.

This is a proposal FOR enforcing it. I want to enforce it by putting someone in jail, not kill them. If I cannot do that then by the standards of some here about what a sandbox is then this game is not sandbox.

to be honest it sounds like some one killed you near your land and now you want some way to punish people with out having to kill them your self.

Well unless this game was being player about 4 years ago I can't see how that could be the case. I have brought this up in other games and it is always the people who want a "total freedom to play how I want" types that get all roudy when I put this forward of how I wan to play in MY sandbox.

Imagine if you will i put down a totem on a spawn point and make a jail, then every noob that spawns in is automatically flagged for trespassing and killed/jailed. Watch subscriptions go down.

Simple solution, make spawn points unable to hold a totem.

put a totem down on the only road in the mountains person traveling though crosses into totem range goes to jail, gets exploited kill and teleported.

Simple solution, go around tribe lands unknown to you.

If you could knock some one out and drag there corpse back to camp and put them in a room you can open close that's one thing. when they add death and some one has to go revive you it will be a chance to setup traps and ambushes.

You cannto drag anyone anywhere and as far as I know never will be able to. This only applies to people on YOUR land. This does not apply to anyone ANYWHERE else.

Anything that does something for you is open to exploit and abuse, and anything that can be abused will be abused, esp in a mmo.

Again, please explain how it can be exploited...bearing in mind you have to enter tribal land for even the possiblity for anything to happen. And you can apply the same mantra used in ffa pvp games to tribal lands "Why play a game/enter tribe lands when you knew you could be attacked/put in jail".

[xyberviri]

Why be the guy that wants to lock a player up in a jail in there town.

also for what its worth, were not killing each other right now, were just getting knocked out. later on they will add the option to decapitate players you knock out.

There are already several totems or near the spot you zone in as a newb.

If a person is bothering you, you kill them, take there weapon and that's it, they have to go back and restock and will leave you be.


How about if i lock some one in jail and just dont give them food or water until i forget about them, and until they decide to delete the character and reroll since they dont get out. and then others come to help them and since there on my land i can do the same, so you end up where some one is basically stuck on my land because no one can let them out and you are the only one that can set them free. So now i have a group of say 10 noobs that just started playing together, they paid there 40.00 and are on day 3 of Xsyon, so far they have spent 90% of there time in this game in my jail. maybe ill wait until day 30 to let them out when there subscription expires, maybe they might say F that game and quit and we loose another subscription. idk, maybe they will pay another 15/mo

If i can take a player and lock down there ablity to roam completely away from them there is grief potential.

how ever:

another thing to mention those preorder weapons are player bound, you can not remove them from a player, if you place it in your sack you can not remove the sack, once the safety zones go down you just gave them a fast pass into your town. that player is now able to destroy what ever they want from the inside out. it might take a while for brick but thats what the preorder pick is for.

[Dubanka]

i just want to know who the primary accounts of maelwydd and zenmaster are...

and why they feel it necessary to use alt accounts to post their rants.

I mean i could understand if asset destruction were in, you could conceivably piss someone off to a degree that they'd come try to burn your crap down...
but we cant, and wont be able to for quite some time.

so why secret squirrel routine?

and any activity the removes the ability of a player to actively control their character was, is, and always be a stupid mechanic...whether that be lengthy stuns, mezzs, traps, or jail. And i've said it many times before, but ill say it again, any mechanic you come up with the arbitrarily aid one side of the populace (ie. pve crowd) will be utilized against your in a much more agressive manner. Like bring a bat to a fight, only to have it taken from you, and then get beat by it (your own bat)....at least until you reach such a point of ridiculousness the pvp crowd just throws in the towel because any further effort would be just stupid.

Of course getting the pvp crowd to go away is your ultimate objective, so advocating mechanics that further that agenda is your obvious MO.

[maelwydd]

How about if i lock some one in jail and just dont give them food or water until i forget about them, and until they decide to delete the character and reroll since they dont get out. and then others come to help them and since there on my land i can do the same, so you end up where some one is basically stuck on my land because no one can let them out and you are the only one that can set them free. So now i have a group of say 10 noobs that just started playing together, they paid there 40.00 and are on day 3 of Xsyon, so far they have spent 90% of there time in this game in my jail. maybe ill wait until day 30 to let them out when there subscription expires, maybe they might say F that game and quit and we loose another subscription. idk, maybe they will pay another 15/mo

It seems to be a reoccouring theme here. I state a mechanic, and you either ignore it and state a scenario that wouln't exist with the mechanic just to reinforce you blinkered opinion.

The Devs would decide the time a player can be jailed not the player. The best time would be 30sec per murder as it takes 30secs to res when you are killed in open play.

But if you don't get it or ignore what I write then quite frankly I will simply ignore you.

Added after 11 minutes:

i just want to know who the primary accounts of maelwydd and zenmaster are...

and why they feel it necessary to use alt accounts to post their rants.

Primary account? Alts accounts? This is the only account I have so no idea why you insinuate anything devious here.

I mean i could understand if asset destruction were in, you could conceivably piss someone off to a degree that they'd come try to burn your crap down...
but we cant, and wont be able to for quite some time.

And this idea wast POST prelude. If you had read and undestood my OP you would have got that.

so why secret squirrel routine?

Not everyone is ashamed of their online ability to hold a discussion so don't paint me with your own brush. Again, the insinuation isn't welcome and you use it to divert from the dialogue.

and any activity the removes the ability of a player to actively control their character was, is, and always be a stupid mechanic

You mean a mechanic like when you die and can't do anything for 30s or just mechanics you don't like because maybe, just maybe it would screw up your ability to grief others with impunity?

It is only stupid to you because you don't like the fact it might give you cause for concern when trying to impose your play style on others. This idea is for defence, not offence and the reaon you don't like it is simply because you want to be able to attack others without any consequence. You are more of a carebear then the people you label as such because at least they have the guts to state they don't want to be over run by the pvp side of the game. It is pure cowardice if you ask me.

...whether that be lengthy stuns, mezzs, traps, or jail. And i've said it many times before, but ill say it again, any mechanic you come up with the arbitrarily aid one side of the populace (ie. pve crowd) will be utilized against your in a much more agressive manner. Like bring a bat to a fight, only to have it taken from you, and then get beat by it (your own bat)....at least until you reach such a point of ridiculousness the pvp crowd just throws in the towel because any further effort would be just stupid.

Of course getting the pvp crowd to go away is your ultimate objective, so advocating mechanics that further that agenda is your obvious MO.

I don't want the pvp crowd to go away. I am part of the so called crowd. I am just not so chicken shit to argue against something that punishes me if I am too stupid to not realise why it is there. I just want a balanced PvP system not a consequence free gankfest.

Think you should change your name from "Volume Discounters" to "Vocal Dick"...

[Dontaze_Mebro]

Griefers never want consequences for their actions. I think an accumulated sentence base on number of crimes would be ok, or maybe to implement this once starvation and permadeath are in play. Right now no one in their right mind would choose imprisonment over death, but if they actually had something to lose from death then this idea might gain more acceptance. From personal experience player jailing can be a great tool to keep the peace and also a tool that can be used very maliciously. I however welcome perma-death and player imprisonment, but I know I am in the minority.

[Xx1327]

A jail system if implemented correctly could be pretty fun, but personally i think its too big a project to attempt for at least a year. There would be more harm than benefit if it made it in game and didn't work just right, and could destroy the already fragile PVP environment.

A game that really did something nice, and simple, with constraints and jails was City of Heroes/Villains. If a villain was killed by police he would wake up in a cell which he had to break out of by destroying the cell door and then defeating any guards in the jail room then all guards in the police HQ which he came into after leaving the jail, or said villain could just wait for the quest timer to end and he'd be out.

Something along these lines could work in game. A tribe could create cells, dungeons, or some kind of jail which could hold players defeated in a siege or any kind of attack. To keep the attackers from respawing anywhere else but the jail, defenders would need to go up to bodies and maybe move them or select and then click "jail".


but all in all extravagant features like this that haven't even been brought up by Jooky should just be left alone until actual features are implemented, tweaked, and fixed.

[Soulwanderer]

Griefers never want consequences for their actions.

The problem is, what is a griefer? Most everyone on the forums will have their own opinions of it. I once spent two months with 7 other friends leading what I termed a grief war against a nation much larger than us who had broken a truce. We hit their XP groups, we killed them in their cities, and we attacked their resources for hours a day every day. We did this to all of them, but focused our efforts on one of their subs. We let them know that when they desubbed (went their own way, separate from the nation) we would stop. Eventually they did, and that made the primary nation much more our size. We targeted them until we deemed that we had 'won'. Was that griefing? I called it a grief war, but it was really just a war with purpose and intent that did not involve sieging. What we did was effective and it allowed us to 'punish' a group for breaking their word.

So really, griefing isn't a clear cut activity. You have no idea why the person playing the game their way kills you three times, but even if he's just doing it because its fun... well, that's what everyone is playing the game for.

Having the devs decide for us just leads to sloppy and unprofessional coding. Why spend three weeks coding mechanics when you can just make it 'against the rules'? The only thing that makes sense is to let the players decide for themselves what is an isn't acceptable behavior. For you, walking across your land may be a crime worthy of war. For me, maybe I need a neighbor to mouth off a little. Whatever your reasons are, all that matters is what you can and can't do through force of arms and perseverance. If the devs add extra worthwhile mechanics later that make the game fun, all the better.

Think you should change your name from "Volume Discounters" to "Vocal Dick"...

hehe, nice. But the jail idea is still horrible.

[Dubanka]

Think you should change your name from "Volume Discounters" to "Vocal Dick"...

I....

Think....

I'm gonna cry...bwahhhhh.

seriously...at least be a little more creative, vaginal discharge Verbal Diahrea or something...

yeah and you're ideas still suck...you're riding a one trick pony that has a broken leg and needs to be put down. sorry.