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Thread: Skill system?

  1. #21
    A soft cap is not a cap. Don't underestimate powergamers. There are enough hours in the day for them. If progression can be made, people will go after it. Trying to convince yourself that people will stop achieving gains just because it's painfully slow is naive at best. On the other hand, by you saying it would be "impossible" to do, there might as well be a hard cap. That's what your "impossible" would be achieving. A hard cap would be much more simple to code.

    You don't want decay or a hard cap, yet you want gains slowing down to a point where it's impossible to max everything, but you also want to be able to keep developing your character. Makes no sense. You either have a system where gain stops at some point or one that keeps going (even if it's terribly slow).

    Another thing... You don't even know if skill decay will happen until you reach a certain soft cap value. It's possible that's what he's thinking of doing. Couldn't tell ya. All he has said is soft cap with skill decay.

  2. #22
    If you stuck a hard cap at some point where the gains are so slow no sane person would still be trying I guess I wouldn't care. But when you say hard cap. I get the impression you mean a hard cap at a point that a casual gamer could pass up within a year or two if the soft cap was in place. If you want to make it so that once you are gaining XP at 1/500th the normal speed, it just says. Ok stop. Then I would never know the difference anyway. If you want to make it so that after I get my melle and ranged combat maxed, along with scavenging, terraforming, agriculture, and leatherworking, then I start moving into healing and the game says ok stop no more leveling. That would kind of tick me off. I would want to get the gains even if its 1/50th the normal rate by that point.

  3. #23
    So, what you're really saying is... You want as many skills as possible. You just listed six skills maxed and expressed unhappiness because you couldn't also get healing.

    This is where choices, risk v. reward, and metagaming come into play. You don't seem to want any of those things. The 2nd and 3rd biggest complaint in Darkfall is the lack of character diversity. AV knows they messed up by not finishing their original idea of soft cap/skill decay system before everyone exploited, macroed, and grinded past the curve. (Yes, it was planned... The skill management commands were ingame via /help and removed 2 months after launch). That's why they're working on combat specializations, armor specializations, and Prestige Classes (if PCs are still in). Many people are asking for the restrictions in order to enhance interdependency and to help with a "unique" feeling, because right now there isn't any.

    What you're suggesting falls directly into the current Darkfall issue... Wanting it all, or at least most of it. Hence, your statement of maxed melee, ranged, along with three crafting trees and a minor craft, but not being able to get any healing. You'd have some healing, anyway. Everything starts at 5 skill.

    That's fine if that is the type of game you want, but it doesn't seem like you're going to get it here.

  4. #24
    That really isn't asking that much when you consider the fact this game has many, many, many skills yet to be added. I'm saying a very combat centered character. Good with melle, and ranged combat. As there are stats that effect magic we know even right there, being a combat centered character, I just gave up something. I have identified my character as a non-magic user. Instead I'm specializing in rifles, and axes (Assuming rifles are added.) There again specific. I'm not using blades, I'm not using bows, I'm not using shovels, I'm not using polearms, I'm using axes and rifles.

    Now then you add in two focus gathering skills. Scavenging, and Agriculture. (I would count agriculture as gathering seeing as it will be used to produce raw resources.)

    Then I have terraforming. In my opinion terraforming should not count toward any kind of skill cap given level has no effect on it, and its a very basic skill everyone is likely to be using. Along with skills like running, swimming and jumping. If you have your own homestead, you need to have terraforming. If you live in a large tribe, you will likely need to help with terraforming. If I could stay at minimum skill and just move the dirt I would, but I can't.

    Finally I as for a single crafting skill. Leathercrafting. Its a very logical skill for the sort of mountain man hunter/peacekeeper kind of image I give my character. By this point in time I am sure there will be many, many, crafting skills. I only ask for one.

    So with my combat centered character with 2 combat specializations out of 3, 2 gathering skills out of hopefully 5-10, a basic skill, and 1 crafting skill out of hopefully 10-20... I would still be able to like to train into some other skills like healing (The bandage kind not the magic kind.) and/or hiding if I put in a considerable amount of work.

    Most theme park MMO's have more character diversity than that for a character class.

    Also: As a side note. If ranged combat is at all realistic to the time period like I hope it is, not having melle combat would be suicidal for a ranged character. When I say rifle, I'm thinking 3 rounds a minute, and not like on a cool down timer. You get off three rounds a minute if you do nothing but reload between each shot. Melle with a round thrown in every 20 seconds, not possible. Bows would be faster firing but not hit as hard.

  5. #25
    We have no idea how many skills are going to be added. It just seems you won't be happy, unless the game allows for the build you want. Thing is, we can already use every skill at a basic level... I don't think that will be any different when decay is added.

    Most theme park MMOs don't have a dynamic skill system. You won't be able to mess up your build here, because it can be changed by your actions. Also, everyone will obviously fall under the same skill mechanic rules, so being weak at combat and getting rolled by a PvP-build player is a consequence of choice. That is not the game's fault. It's a risk versus reward type scenario brought on by the choices you made. I don't even think that can happen, anyway, since I've already told you that Jordi separated the pools like a newb. We can be gods in both lines.

  6. #26
    Depending on how skill decay works, you may get your wish anyway. You can't train combat and crafting at the same time.

    Also it depends on how you mean mess up your build. If there is a hard cap in a game that levels you based on what skills you use it is VERY easy to mess up your build. Anything you do, that isn't directly leveling the skills you actually want to have maxed, is messing up your build. I don't want to have to max level my character before I can ever go fishing or build a wall, and I don't not want to not be able to do them for fear it will hurt my other skills.

  7. #27
    Not really... In Pre-NGE SWG, you could drop skills you no longer wanted and it would free up points. You then started working on the other skills you wanted to invest those points into. I changed my build 4-5 different times in that game. It was a hard cap on points (250), but you could always change things around if desired.

    You "don't want" and "fear" too much. Be happy with what you will be able to do, because everyone is under the same rules and choices will be personal. Be happy that you'll be able to have every skill on at least a basic level, which I disagree with, but again... Whatever.

  8. #28
    And it sounds to me like you want another pre-NGE SWG. This is not that kind of game. When you take out all NPCs other than animals, and require the player to go out, build up from nothing, and survive in the world it is an entirely different kind of beast.

    You need to be well rounded to survive. You can't just go to the auction house and sell the items you want to get the items you need. Approaching it with a mentality like this game is SWG will not work. I think of it as more of a cross between Wurm Online and Darkfall. Because that is pretty accurate to what it is.

    Remember not everyone will join a tribe. Not every tribe is a large tribe. If they can't both fend for themselves combat-wise and at least produce valuable items they can trade for the things they need, they will not survive.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Andius View Post
    Remember not everyone will join a tribe. Not every tribe is a large tribe. If they can't both fend for themselves combat-wise and at least produce valuable items they can trade for the things they need, they will not survive.
    ? Everyone has the same rules it's just that the soft cap you're thinking about is actually more like a soft+hard cap. Same rules balances what you wrote. A strict soft cap, though, will hurt any new players' survivability worse the longer the game is out. Then without skill decay you'll never be able to change your playstyle. With 1 char per account that's not smart.

    I'm sure you can think of a skill decay system that you'll like. It doesn't have to be one that decreases skills when you do nothing (unless you're on the cusp of master or old and senile). It doesn't have to be one where your axe goes down by 0.2 while your using axes...now if you were using blades sure. You can also ask the team to add locks on skills so that you can focus where things decay. It doesn't have to be random. A pure soft skill system is stupid ...like i said...eventually everyone will be the same if it takes 1 or 10 years it doesn't matter.

  10. #30
    How will skill decay be implemented on the macroers who have 100 in every skill? Sounds like they have far less to lose in the long run. How will this effect the softcap? Are you going to nerf these characters skills that they spent so much time grinding? Darkfall made the same promises and we all know how that has turned out... This needs to be turned on immediately before people surpass the intended cap (which I'm sure any macroer probably has already). You are going to lose subscribers if you add it in after we've all maxed our skills to be able to compete.

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