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  1. #21
    I freely admit as has been stated that we're asking too much for an MnB style combat system. If they can pull it off though, this game will go down in MMO history. Admit it, we're all asking ourselves if this will be the one or if we'll have to wait for another 10 years for the tech to make a game that has all of the games you love rolled into one. It will happen eventually.

    We do indeed dream.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenchfoot View Post
    What RM said. ^^

    And frankly, I did stop reading at lock-ons. It's symbolic of everything I hate about games that do all the work for you. I'd rather read a book than watch two calculators do battle. And further I would be dead set against any feature that takes the skill of the player out of their hands. Hitting what you are aiming at manually is a skill. Some got it, others just need practice. This is why we love MnB style combat. I takes real effort and real skill.
    Now I am not agreeing with the OP, but from all the MnB combat videos I have seen...everything seems to go down in...1 hit...how is that skill, at all?

  3. #23
    Have no desire to see a Lock-On mechanic in game.

    Like to...
    - know what Armed Combat is for? Sounds like Tactics from UO.
    - see all the Weapon Types and Skills in game.
    - have the combat box enhanced. Weapon/Arm distance is not correct.
    - see there be fast to slow weapons of each type.
    And to top it all off.. NO LAG WHILE IN COMBAT!!!

    Once all this is done then we should be talking about how to improve PvP.

  4. #24
    Now I am not agreeing with the OP, but from all the MnB combat videos I have seen...everything seems to go down in...1 hit...how is that skill, at all?
    Sometimes it's fast, other times it long, and sometimes it's just pure luck. The point is that it's a skill YOU as the player learn, and not a statistic that the character learns. Your combat skills don't automatically appear just because you get another point in some skill (while it may effect the odds somewhat). Your combat skills appear when you as the player learn them. You can't grind them up out of nothing by getting more points on your character sheet. You must actually learn them by practice and experience (real experience, not experience points).

    And that's what I love about the MnB system. That when you become a good sword fighter, it hardly matters what your character sheet says, you're still a good sword fighter. And things like level, stats, gear, etc. become less and less of a factor in a fight as you get better. So that when you learn to feign, parry, dodge, block, strike, even if you re-roll your toon you still retain those skills as a player.

    Now I don't care how they do the mechanics of it necessarily. It's not that I want combat here to even look anything like MnB. I'm not saying anything like 'Clone MnB'. MnB is just a good example of the things I describe above. I honestly don't care how they get there, but I would really like to see a combat system with the aspect I described above. Where levels and gear and stats play less of a critical role in success than player skill does.

    We've all seen the level 20 run up and wale on the level 80 and the level 80 just stand there unaffected. When stats/levels/gear become the primary factor in combat, you're not fighting at all, a calculator is. And that's really the only reason I tout MnB, because it's the best example of breaking that mold that I know of.

    It's the difference between being a good fighter because your stats/gear says you're a good fighter, and ACTUALLY BEING a good fighter.

    If they can capture the essence of this, I'd play this game until the sun explodes.

    EDIT: Just to clarify. I'm not saying stats/gear shouldn't matter at all. I'm saying that stats/gear shouldn't decide empirically. That out of two equally skilled swordsman, stats/gear could come into play. But also that an unskilled swordsman with the highest stats and the very best gear has very little chance against an expert swordsman with beginner stats and starter gear.

    'Expert' being a title you earn through real practice and experience, not a title you grind up that's displayed on your character sheet.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenchfoot View Post
    Sometimes it's fast, other times it long, and sometimes it's just pure luck. The point is that it's a skill YOU as the player learn, and not a statistic that the character learns. Your combat skills don't automatically appear just because you get another point in some skill (while it may effect the odds somewhat). Your combat skills appear when you as the player learn them. You can't grind them up out of nothing by getting more points on your character sheet. You must actually learn them by practice and experience (real experience, not experience points).

    And that's what I love about the MnB system. That when you become a good sword fighter, it hardly matters what your character sheet says, you're still a good sword fighter. And things like level, stats, gear, etc. become less and less of a factor in a fight as you get better. So that when you learn to feign, parry, dodge, block, strike, even if you re-roll your toon you still retain those skills as a player.

    Now I don't care how they do the mechanics of it necessarily. It's not that I want combat here to even look anything like MnB. I'm not saying anything like 'Clone MnB'. MnB is just a good example of the things I describe above. I honestly don't care how they get there, but I would really like to see a combat system with the aspect I described above. Where levels and gear and stats play less of a critical role in success than player skill does.

    We've all seen the level 20 run up and wale on the level 80 and the level 80 just stand there unaffected. When stats/levels/gear become the primary factor in combat, you're not fighting at all, a calculator is. And that's really the only reason I tout MnB, because it's the best example of breaking that mold that I know of.

    It's the difference between being a good fighter because your stats/gear says you're a good fighter, and ACTUALLY BEING a good fighter.

    If they can capture the essence of this, I'd play this game until the sun explodes.

    EDIT: Just to clarify. I'm not saying stats/gear shouldn't matter at all. I'm saying that stats/gear shouldn't decide empirically. That out of two equally skilled swordsman, stats/gear could come into play. But also that an unskilled swordsman with the highest stats and the very best gear has very little chance against an expert swordsman with beginner stats and starter gear.

    'Expert' being a title you earn through real practice and experience, not a title you grind up that's displayed on your character sheet.

    It's funny lol all the reasons you love MnB are all the reasons why I love Demon Souls. In a lot of ways MnB and Demon Souls are similar. The differences being big when viewed from the outside but once you play both games their differences become smaller. Believe it or not Trench I do not want to see stats/gear become what defines you as a character, I do not want certain builds that are the end all to be all of PvP.

    What I mean is I always hated games that said you had to gear or build your stats in a certain way to be good. I do want a system where skill is the deciding factor, which is why I'm asking for a system similar to demon souls. I believe Demon Souls found a nice balance between skill and stats/gear. I also am beginning to realize that lock-on, while it works in demon souls, is not necessarily the best thing to see in a PC game lol.

    @Jcatano

    Thanks for the laugh lol.

    @Biotek

    I certainly wouldn't mind a hybrid system, it could be interesting but I don't think I've played with many hybrid systems. Though I guess S.L.A.I had a hybrid system now that I think about it..... Could be fun. As long as they have a balance between all combat styles (by balance I mean weakness to at least a couple other styles) and skill counted more than stats.

    @Belight

    Yeah technological problems I could see happening.... To tell the truth I never even thought about hitboxes being a source of lag. Makes sense though, but one can certainly dream and hope.

  6. #26
    Agreed wolfmoonstrike. I just hear lock-on and it makes me crazy....

    Also think of how many problems it solves to place the actual skill of combat in the players hands like MnB does.

    It would mean that macro grinding points would gain you very little, that players who are able to play 24/7 would no longer have an enormous advantage over the ones who can't, and that griefers would not as easily be able to chew on newer toons that know how to handle themselves.

    It would allow 'naturals' to truly be naturals....

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenchfoot View Post
    Agreed wolfmoonstrike. I just hear lock-on and it makes me crazy....

    Also think of how many problems it solves to place the actual skill of combat in the players hands like MnB does.

    It would mean that macro grinding points would gain you very little, that players who are able to play 24/7 would no longer have an enormous advantage over the ones who can't, and that griefers would not as easily be able to chew on newer toons that know how to handle themselves.


    It would allow 'naturals' to truly be naturals....
    I think a system that was easy to learn but hard to master would be great for situations like that ^^. Plus if there was a way to make it so a solo but skilled player could fend off 5 people then I think that would hopefully kill off a few zergs lol. To tell the truth I'm not sure if that's possible with a MnB system. I mean in MnB I could take on about 2-3 w/o too much worry but after 4+ things got a lot slimmer lol. Of course I'm thinking of the street fights.... On the battle field and on a horse with a warscythe, so many heads so little time lol.

    But with that all said I think its up to us players to say what we'd like to see now before the overhaul and debate about it. Not saying anything we say will get put in that wouldn't already be put in but who knows we may actually come up with a system that suits everybody. A system based around player skill, has balance between combat styles (so not everybody is using weapon X or stats Y), A system that is easy to learn but hard to master. Personally I'm kinda miffed that currently to be a PvP character you need 90str/agi/frt, ok maybe NEED isn't quite right but if you ask somebody "what stats do I need to PvP" the answer is always those 3 stats....

  8. #28
    Its probably been mentioned, but you dont have to lock on to your target to hit them, you just have to so you can see there health.

  9. #29
    To be honest I think we have come to the conclusion here that we want MnB with Xsyon sandbox elements not the other way around.

    I for one would jump all over a post-apocalyptic MnB MMO. We seem to be hoping that the devs of the game will reinvent it to thesze expectations. At this point I think it would be easier to convince the devs of MnB to emulate this game than vise versa.

    Perhaps a web petition to the developers of MnB is in order.

  10. #30
    You're still suggesting one hit kills....I for one will refuse to play this game if that can happen EVER. One hit kills is the epitome of UNSKILLED.


    Also, if there are no stats in this game at all on gear then entire point of crafting is pointless, absolutely pointless. There most be some contributing factor from gear, including BETTER GEAR or there is simply absolutely no reason to craft anything other then the basic crap.

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