Suggested combat system for the overhaul

[STAR_GOD]

great post

[XeoStyle]

TL;DR

i agree with inq :P

[wolfmoonstrike]

Well gee thanks guys care to add more thoughts than that . And I was worried that it might be too long but I had a lot to say lol. Certainly their is more to say than "Great Post" boss .

[wolfmoonstrike]

Console style combat? Absolutely terrible idea. Demons Souls is a great game, but sorry, I don't want that to be my standard for PvP in a MMO.

Locking on to enemies eliminates a great deal of the individual skill and maneuverability. And even more importantly, it makes group combat into a total uncontrollable mash-fest. Seriously, you're requesting LOCK ONS of all things?

Hands down, worst suggestion I've seen on this forum. I'd support the "get married and have an NPC baby" crap before I'd get behind this idea.

Did you stop at lock-ons? Or continue on? That was just one part of the suggestion.

But lock-on I think is dependent on how it's used and the other mechanics behind it. Honestly I believe lock on only eliminates the aiming part of the skill set but you still need skills for the other parts of the combat. For group combat it is already for the most part an uncontrollably mash up since you're never sure who're fighting lol. But can you go into how you think it would be worse with lock-ons in a group situation?

[wolfmoonstrike]

double post, please delete if possible mods.

[Trenchfoot]

What RM said. ^^

And frankly, I did stop reading at lock-ons. It's symbolic of everything I hate about games that do all the work for you. I'd rather read a book than watch two calculators do battle. And further I would be dead set against any feature that takes the skill of the player out of their hands. Hitting what you are aiming at manually is a skill. Some got it, others just need practice. This is why we love MnB style combat. I takes real effort and real skill.

[wolfmoonstrike]

Hmm you make some damn good points Morgan.

One of the reasons I did suggest a lock-on was to offset lag. Also like I said before if done right you couldn't just sit there and bash your button to win. In demon souls it took timing, active tactics, MP/endurance management, and preparation to win; if you were an invader anyway. I also disagree that it would have no place in a PvP setting since demon souls pulled it off really well.

But with that said, I can't disagree that it would dumb down gameplay from targeting with your mouse. And I understand the fear too well and I worry that stats/equipment would have too much of an effect. Then again regardless of the battle system stats/equipment could still have too much of an effect. Another reason though why I'm drawing so heavily from demon souls is it took a lot of skill and I won quite a few fights when I was out manned, and out gunned(also got my ass kicked other times....rolling off cliffs suck).

What if the weapons hurt everybody around you that got hit by the weapon swing? Regardless if they were friend or foe. So that way you couldn't just run in and kill a guy, you'd likely have to layer it out so you didn't hurt your own people.

Well even if lock-on may be a bad idea I'd still rather see a different dodge system than what we currently have lol. A couple rolls here or there would be nice.

Added after 5 minutes:

What RM said. ^^

And frankly, I did stop reading at lock-ons. It's symbolic of everything I hate about games that do all the work for you. I'd rather read a book than watch two calculators do battle. And further I would be dead set against any feature that takes the skill of the player out of their hands. Hitting what you are aiming at manually is a skill. Some got it, others just need practice. This is why we love MnB style combat. I takes real effort and real skill.

Don't blame you for it, I'd hate to see two calculators fight it out too. I also understand my post is quite long(sorry) but it doesn't revolve around lock on. I believe there are other good ideas in the post and may help you understand some of my points about a lock on. The last thing I would want to see, is the game be about completely be about the gear/stats....but it already seems quite dependent on stats. 90 agi/str/fortitude anyone?

[Trenchfoot]

@ WolfMoonStrike

Play MnB until you get good at it and you'll understand instantly why it's so popular here. Because in MnB skill can and often does override even the best of gear.

[wolfmoonstrike]

Like I said, Demons Souls is a great game, so I can see why you'd find inspiration in it. I just don't agree that it translates well into MMO pvp. It's not like you get 30 vs 30 battles in that game; most combat is 1v1. There are things about it that do translate really well, though, as you mentioned.

From my experience you need certain elements to make good action-based combat. Players need to ultize their skill in timing, positioning, range, stamina conservation and commitment. (By commitment I mean that making an attacking makes you vulnerable until you recover your animation.) To make good group combat, you have to give players the ability to use terrain, cover and some degree of formations to their advantage. And, of course, friendly fire is a must if group combat is to be anything other than a zerg fest.

Yeah to tell the truth I was worried about how some of the mechanics would translate into an MMO. I certainly can't disagree that you'd need formations and if you weren't able to utilize terrain I'd be devastated regardless of the combat system lol.I think committing to an attack would be a great to see since that would (hopefully) think about timing and how they attack, regardless of combat system . Actually if they didn't put in lock on but made sure that timing, position, range, stamina conservation, and commitment was all in I'd be very happy.

There is/was a lot in demon souls that I'd kill to see in an MMO, and lock on wasn't really the important one lol. I think the balance between combat styles was way more important. I never felt like I need to be a certain way to win in Demon's Souls.

[Hellaciouss]

What RM said. ^^

And frankly, I did stop reading at lock-ons. It's symbolic of everything I hate about games that do all the work for you. I'd rather read a book than watch two calculators do battle. And further I would be dead set against any feature that takes the skill of the player out of their hands. Hitting what you are aiming at manually is a skill. Some got it, others just need practice. This is why we love MnB style combat. I takes real effort and real skill.

Now I am not agreeing with the OP, but from all the MnB combat videos I have seen...everything seems to go down in...1 hit...how is that skill, at all?