Wounds and Death Penalties

[Andius]

As of right now combat has no real meaning, other than I get your gear! But as gear only gives minimal advantages in combat...

In a game filled with open world combat, losing stats, perma-death or some other harsh penalty would merely discourage people from stepping of their homestead and lead to rage quits.

However it can't stand as is, with no penalty. The other night when I was fighting greifers, their homesteads were right next to mine. I would kill one, and then they respawn, rest up, and be back at it within a minute. Likewise we could beat up on eachother and then run back to homestead, rest up and and charge back into the fray within a minute. This basically means the only thing that will stop your opponents from harassing you every time you step off deed to chop a tree or scavenge is constant vigilance and pressure. This can work for the moment but eventually there needs to be a system where if your neighbor is bothering you, and you kill them, that you can enjoy some peace for at least a little while

The solution is a death penalty, and with the sting of death meaning something it allows for one of the most unique and fun systems of damage I have ever seen in a game. The wound system.

The Death Penalty

For all that lead up, the idea is pretty simple. After you die for 30 minutes your outgoing damage is reduced by 90% due to how frail you are after recovering. Also any outgoing healing is entirely prevented. So you cannot do any damage worth mentioning and you cannot heal your allies, which basically means, you can't do anything related to combat for half an hour, preventing you from coming back and bothering your neighbor who just wants to go out and scavenge for awhile. You can still gather, and still craft with no penalties whatsoever during this half hour.

In addition, not everyone wants you to not be able to fight for half an hour. Perhaps your fight was friendly. Perhaps your neighbor just wants some action. Whoever lays the killing blow to you, can choose to "spare" you. If you are spared, you take no death penalty. This can be done at any time during the half hour by simply typing "/spare playername" so that your killer won't have to deal with a bunch of "Spare? Yes/No" windows in the middle of a big battle.

Also death penalties don't stack, you do not receive additional time if you die during the half hour because I mean come on. You're doing 10% damage. If your the one being greifed the guy could hunt you down and kill you every time you go off deed all day and prevent you from ever being able to fight back again until one of you logs off or you hide on your deed for half an hour.

The Wound System

To any of you who have played Wurm Online this system will be familiar. I'm sure that gives some mixed reactions but this system is not only the most realistic damage system I have ever seen and in my opinion its the most fun. Its not "Oh that bear hit me for 50 damage, lets run away and eat some mule deer jerky and have a rest." Its "OH GOD!!! THE BLOOD IS GOING EVERYWHERE!!! I'M BLEEDING TO DEATH!!! SOMEONE STOP THIS BLEEDING!!!!" You don't know intensity in combat until you realize that even though you just took down your opponent, you are still bleeding to death. You don't know fun as a healer until you have some random player come tearing towards your homestead, blood going everywhere begging you to bandage their wounds for them before they die.

So the wound system would work like this. Instead of taking 10 points of damage, you take a 10 point wound, and the total of your wounds is how much health you are missing. Wounds range from light, to "OMG!!!" (Perhaps with slightly different names. ) A light wound is like a bruise or a scratch. Given time it will heal on its own, but it will it will heal faster if treated. As wounds go up though, the time it takes to heal gets longer. Not just longer. More moderate wounds will not heal unless treated. Severe wounds will actually increase in damage over time.

There are also three special conditions wounds can receive one which will change conditions if untreated.

A deep wound. Deep wounds are obviously a wound where the slash, bite, etc. Goes deeply into the body. These wounds require stitches to heal.

Unclean wounds, these are wounds that have some sort of contaminate in them, like an animal bite or a poison arrow. If quickly treated with some form of cleansing agent or antidote, the unclean condition will go away and the wound will be fine. If not they will become infected or poisoned wounds. Infected or poisoned wounds can be treated by drinking a medicine or antidote, but they will take longer to heal than if they had been treated quickly.

Finally wounds with heavy bleeding. These wounds are treated with bandages, and will quickly weaken whoever has them until the bleeding is stopped with a bandage.

These effects ARE stackable. You could receive a bite from a rabid bear that is deep, unclean, and bleeding heavily. In this case you would treat the wound, stitch it up, then bandage it. Or for an unclean wound with heavy bleeding you could use a treated bandage.

Conclusion

Again, I realize both my suggests today have been very long winded and I thank anyone who has taken the time to fully read and consider them.

Comments and Suggestions are welcome.

[Xidian]

I'm a little iffy on the death penalty suggestion, but the Wound suggestion is just amazing.

[Proto]

The solution is simple. Get rid of the safezone bullshit once gates are operational (I'm even giving in here) and turn on asset destruction. They grief you, you burn down their city. It's simple and it works. No need to rewrite the playbook!

[Dubanka]

i actually could get behind a 'death penalty'. there needs to be a mechanic to slow down the naked grief pk thing. if you win a fight you should get some bit of respite for it.
I think 30 minutes is too long, maybe 5...it shouldn't be punitive, just a mechanism to prevent the instanteous move back into the fight.

the wounds thing. meh. i'd settle for acceptable basic combat mechanics for getting into something like that.

[Andius]

The solution is simple. Get rid of the safezone bullshit once gates are operational (I'm even giving in here) and turn on asset destruction. They grief you, you burn down their city. It's simple and it works. No need to rewrite the playbook!

And every asset, of every city, and every homestead would be reduced to ashes before morning. People aren't always online to protect their assets, and there isn't even a real defenders advantage yet given the lack of ranged weapons. It would be mobs of greifers roaming around destroying everything in their path. If any resistance was met, they would simply come back after they went to bed. They could change the name to "Naked players with pre-order weapons online." My solution to this problem is found here:

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...er-territories

For this topic lets suffice to say, I do not think that is a valid substitute for a death penalty.

[Proto]

And every asset, of every city, and every homestead would be reduced to ashes before morning. People aren't always online to protect their assets, and there isn't even a real defenders advantage yet given the lack of ranged weapons. It would be mobs of greifers roaming around destroying everything in their path. If any resistance was met, they would simply come back after they went to bed. They could change the name to "Naked players with pre-order weapons online." My solution to this problem is found here:

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...er-territories

For this topic lets suffice to say, I do not think that is a valid substitute for a death penalty.

That's crap. I've played games w/asset destruction and that just doesn't happen. Obviously you don't make it as easy as clear cutting a forest and you allow defenders to prepare, but there's an easy way to balance the system that you don't need more artificial features to be programmed in to make pvp viable.

[Andius]

Were those games like EVE where assets are only controlled by huge alliances and have automated NPC denfeses, games like Darkfall, where towns again are controlled by at minimum, a large clan, and you only have to repair them if they are "destroyed" rather than rebuilding from scratch, and you have to use up expensive items to do asset damage, or games like the Wild in Wurm where your bases are constantly protected by a bunch of NPC uberguards?

In this game, there are no NPCs, and you can have 1 man homesteads. There is no starter area where players are safe before they are eased into the kind of chaotic PVP filled environment you find in these games. There is no word of special items needed for asset destruction, and items don't even have decay yet. So maybe, the largest tribes in the game would do ok. But we are not in the right conditions to allow asset destruction of any form yet, and the simple addition of gates won't change that.

[Arkonick]

The system for wurm is perfect. I was suggesting this type of system before some where on these forums as a future feature and never played wurm. But after all this time testing i decided to chk out some of these mmos people keep comparing to Xsyon wurm being one of them. An the wund system is the way to go like in wurm.

Also like I've mentioned before Pve players can't be mixed with pvp player's. Pve players dont want to worry about any thing but npc mobs in the forest. Pvp players want human target's. What needs to happen here in Xyson is a system like in wurm a cross over where pvp and pve are connected threw some portal system. Where if a pvp player wants to go pve a while they can go zone over to the pve side and if a pve player wants to go pvp they can zone over to the pvp side.

You can not mix these two type of players in the end you'll always get same result pve players will quit.

Pvp players want pve players cause pve players are easy kill targets cause they run rather than fight its not how they want to enjoy the game. Which is why its so easy to grief a pve player. This system has to change regardless of all the pvp players crying about loosing the pve players. Wurm seems to be doing fine on both pvp and the pve side being seperate like it is.

Regardless how many people will have something smart to say about this post it is very true this game will fail in pve players do to the enforcment of pvp on them and half the player base is pve. I can't see this working in any way in the future. There is no way to mix these player bases with out arguments from either side.

Give pve player a safty spot pvp players get angry. Take away safty spots and the ability to roam free gathering and exploring the land with just danger of npc animals and mobs that can be avoided at will and you anger the pve player. they can't mix and have success.

This is my 98 cents in this matter.

[MrDDT]

The system for wurm is perfect. I was suggesting this type of system before some where on these forums as a future feature and never played wurm. But after all this time testing i decided to chk out some of these mmos people keep comparing to Xsyon wurm being one of them. An the wund system is the way to go like in wurm.

Also like I've mentioned before Pve players can't be mixed with pvp player's. Pve players dont want to worry about any thing but npc mobs in the forest. Pvp players want human target's. What needs to happen here in Xyson is a system like in wurm a cross over where pvp and pve are connected threw some portal system. Where if a pvp player wants to go pve a while they can go zone over to the pve side and if a pve player wants to go pvp they can zone over to the pvp side.

You can not mix these two type of players in the end you'll always get same result pve players will quit.

Pvp players want pve players cause pve players are easy kill targets cause they run rather than fight its not how they want to enjoy the game. Which is why its so easy to grief a pve player. This system has to change regardless of all the pvp players crying about loosing the pve players. Wurm seems to be doing fine on both pvp and the pve side being seperate like it is.

Regardless how many people will have something smart to say about this post it is very true this game will fail in pve players do to the enforcment of pvp on them and half the player base is pve. I can't see this working in any way in the future. There is no way to mix these player bases with out arguments from either side.

Give pve player a safty spot pvp players get angry. Take away safty spots and the ability to roam free gathering and exploring the land with just danger of npc animals and mobs that can be avoided at will and you anger the pve player. they can't mix and have success.

This is my 98 cents in this matter.

100% true because EVE if failing.
Oh wait. Its not.

PVE and PVP can mix, you just need to have a good system for it. A broken system is still a broken system. You need to find a working system. EVE has a good one. Heck even like you said a portal system will work. You can have other systems in place too, like a good vs evil system OMG. Kinda like Xsyon is trying to put into place.

[Arkonick]

I'am sorry but you are wrong. There are thousands of people who want only Pve and nothing to do with Pvp. That is why you can't force it on them they will quit. I'm looking at this from every side not my side which is clearly how most people posting look at it.

Right now a Pve player has to worry about going in to combat with a player out of the blue when they are out doing Pve stuff. When that person could normally run away from a bear or animal or zombie and the mob will drop agro after a short distance a Pvp player want. And if a Pve mob kills them it don't loot any thing off there corpse. A Pvp player will and a good bit of them take every thing and destroy most of there stuff to handle the extra weight.

See this is enforcment. Thats why I was sujesting a system like in wurm which I went to look at as a example from others I keep hearing from. As a tester I look for alturnatives to make things fun for every one. But as it stands Pvp is enforced on Pve players. There are people who want not one thing to do with Pvp, an there are a lot of them playing now. A good few have already left not because of lag or the glitches that have happen at the pre launch but because of the pvp enforcment.

I can confirm this cause I've meet several of them in Wurm already. People always talk about mmos they just played and I've meet a ton of new players in past 4 weeks on wurm while I run threw testing what they have to offer and to get ideas I can shoot by to jooky to help Xyson be best sand box ever I've noticed a increase of new people to wurm. Alot comeing from Xyson, an the big answer I get from them when I ask why change is Pvp enforcment. These people just want to come in build talk and socialize.

My statement is from actual fact and speaking to these people leaving for a diffrent mmo. Where does your fact's come from? Like I said and posted Pve and Pvp can't mix. And in the statement above this post you agree by saying ( Heck even like you said a portal system will work ) That portal system seperates pve and Pvp players so they never meet head to head. unless they choose too. Which clearifies what I'm saying. There is no way a pvp system can work with a pve player in any life time.

Even tho xsyon had posted this in the details. Which most people didn't fully read threw. Xsyon still attracted the Pve players and now a desision has to be made change the system or let stand and let those people go find new mmo. This is my point looking at it from both sides.

As a Pvp player yes I love having Pve players there easy targets 7 out of 10 run and I run behind kill them the 3 out of 10 who decide to try stand and fight don't have a clue and die which makes it boring for the true pvp player cause the lack of a challange. After getting board the Pvp player will log in less and start looking for something new with more exciting. Once that is acomplished they leave.

Seperate them and Pve players want leave the Pvp players want get board cause people he finds will be like him wantting to fight and a challange so the game want be boaring to him he will stay. mix the 2 and well? Viniger and water don't mix.