Things needing addressed ASAP

[Surly]

6. The Game Sucks - Downtime/Unplayable - It'd be pretty sweet if the servers were stable and this looked like a real release of some kind.

[Shikoba]

1. Combat - Mechanics - I've seen Atari games with more impressive combat mechanics than this MMO. Hit ranges, proper hitbox registers, lag generated from combat, collision detection, etc. Looting in water (exploit). Looting of restricted baskets (exploit).

2. Combat - Balance - Weapons, Armor, Stam use, run speeds, etc. PO weapons are OP and should be lootable, different adjustments for different weapons (axes slower/more damage than daggers/fists/etc). Armor should mean something besides good lewt for a naked man. Fists shouldn't be more viable than a weapon.

3. Combat - Skillpoints - There is no real difference between having 0 or 100 in a combat skill.

4. Baskets - Nameable - Baskets should be able to be named. It is nothing more than an annoying chore with lag and other issues when you are trying to find something in a tribe's basket array. Simply naming them would save soooo much time for the player to do a simple task.

5. Stat points - Degrading - Disable stat points from degrading especially since there is no known way to increase its value. No reason to penalize the playerbase that is dealing with the "release" and lag without being able to improve it themselves.

First of all, I very much agree with you on basket naming. It gets very cluttered very quickly.

I also agree with you that combat/weapons/armor/skills need attention and are all important to the game's success, and the obvious exploits and bugs should be dealt with promptly.

However, I think optimization, game stopping bugs and server stability need to be priority one.

I also think that it's very important that the devs take a look at the skill systems and the items in the game. Currently people are mastering skills very fast, skills don't have very meaningful effects (depending on the skill) and it is difficult to determine the quality or usefulness of items in general. I feel the devs need to re-evaluate how to make their game systems keep people's interest in the long run if we want to see this game succeed.

To give an example... In Wurm Online, skills are fairly difficult to raise. Being a master of a skill is very meaningful, as it is both very difficult to get them that high, and a high skill has a very meaningful effect on what quality of items you can create. A level 90 terraformer could modify massive slopes, a 90 blacksmith could forge swords of great quality and effectiveness and so on. Also, items had quality which related to the effectiveness of the item. A quality 50 lantern would shine quite brighter then a quality 5 lantern a newbie might make.

You seem pretty biased towards the combat part of the game, and that's fine, but I think your statement that it is THE driving force to keep people in the game is false.

There are people who play the game for the combat, people who play for the crafting and people who play for the "sandcastles". They CAN co-exist and I think the more each game type feeds into each other, the better experience for everybody. (Better crafting system resulting in more interesting combat, building system giving benefits to crafting system and playing part in combat tactics, combat creating demand for crafting items and defensive structures, etc.)

There needs to be a balance of tweaking combat, crafting, building and skill mechanics, and I think some of the core systems need to be reexamined on how they could be reworked to make the game succeed in the long run.

[Salvadore]

You seem pretty biased towards the combat part of the game, and that's fine, but I think your statement that it is THE driving force to keep people in the game is false.

Without combat, the only thing to do in this game is gather/craft/build. Subract half of that, since there is no real use in crafting weapons, armor, or anything relevant to combat. What is the motivation to log in right now? To build more structures? Ok, thats covering a VERY small portion of the playerbase that doesnt get bored building city things all day. Where are the rest of the players at? What is its ultimate goal?

Totem locations - combat related. Harvesting resources outside of your safezone - combat related. Hunting animals - combat related. Pretty much everything done in this game has to deal with "combat" being involved with it, besides maybe macro fishing or basketweaving inside of a safezone. Everything else has the potential to have combat, either chosen or not, involved. I see it as THE driving force to keep people in game because it literally is involved with a vast majority of the game. Without it, defeats the purpose of so many other things.

There are people who play the game for the combat, people who play for the crafting and people who play for the "sandcastles". They CAN co-exist and I think the more each game type feeds into each other, the better experience for everybody. (Better crafting system resulting in more interesting combat, building system giving benefits to crafting system and playing part in combat tactics, combat creating demand for crafting items and defensive structures, etc.)

There needs to be a balance of tweaking combat, crafting, building and skill mechanics, and I think some of the core systems need to be reexamined on how they could be reworked to make the game succeed in the long run.

Completely agree with you here, thus why I put combat types at my top 3. If the combat does not improve asap, you are going to be left with sandcastle builders. The combat and crafting people will leave with no real reason to stay besides building sandcastles. Keep in mind, the sandcastle builder can easily pick up all crafting skills due to no softcap as well. Thus, this game is left with ALL sandcastle builders ;[

Need all 3 for game to survive imo.

[Saolite]

This is not a flame thread. This thread's intentions are to *debate* what needs the most attention asap.

Things needing addressed asap, in chronological order:

1. Combat - Mechanics - I've seen Atari games with more impressive combat mechanics than this MMO. Hit ranges, proper hitbox registers, lag generated from combat, collision detection, etc. Looting in water (exploit). Looting of restricted baskets (exploit).

2. Combat - Balance - Weapons, Armor, Stam use, run speeds, etc. PO weapons are OP and should be lootable, different adjustments for different weapons (axes slower/more damage than daggers/fists/etc). Armor should mean something besides good lewt for a naked man. Fists shouldn't be more viable than a weapon.

3. Combat - Skillpoints - There is no real difference between having 0 or 100 in a combat skill.

4. Baskets - Nameable - Baskets should be able to be named. It is nothing more than an annoying chore with lag and other issues when you are trying to find something in a tribe's basket array. Simply naming them would save soooo much time for the player to do a simple task.

5. Stat points - Degrading - Disable stat points from degrading especially since there is no known way to increase its value. No reason to penalize the playerbase that is dealing with the "release" and lag without being able to improve it themselves.

These seem like the most amount of game-breaking problems ive seen that should be easily resolved. Combat MUST be addressed asap, since it is the absolution of everything else to do in game. It drives the economy, adds various amounts of depth to the game, and is the driving force to KEEP PLAYERS IN GAME.

Ive already seen droves of people leave the game with no intent on looking back from various tribes because of the one thing this game lacks - COMBAT. There is nothing left to do in this game (really) besides keep building sand castles. Combat drives all of it even if the hardcore carebear refuses to admit it. The majority of crafting skills are really useless without combat working properly.

This needs addressed IMMEDIATELY, else all that will be left are the hardcore sandcastle builders...and when exactly will they get bored building? Well, I doubt it will be long at all...

1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
4. No.
5. Hell No.


1-4 need to be addressed, yes, but that is completely the wrong direction to take fixes. All of that isn't important in the long run.

You can have your opinion on combat, but combat is useless without some reason for the combat -- otherwise it turns into arena style combat with no objective.

1. Server Performance / Client Performance.

2. Item Decay.

3. Skill Decay.

In my opinion? Those three are the ones that need to be done, before anything else. Before new servers, before new crafting recipes, before animals, before combat, before tribe mechanics, before gates, before the mist opens. If those three are not working soon, then all the combat in the world won't matter, because the world will be flooded with items, baskets and bags will be everywhere, and everyone will be a Grandmaster in everything. That sounds like a ruined game to me, versus a few combat fixes that's going to get overhauled anyway.

[Salvadore]

1. Server Performance / Client Performance.

2. Item Decay.

3. Skill Decay.

1. Will ALWAYS be a high priority with every change being made. I figured this is kind of a rhetorical bullet to be made. It will never be perfect.

2. Item Decay - Why? At least half of the items are useless due to broken combat, so why bother making them decay? Seems like a step out of order to have things breaking whenever they are only used for aesthetics and cosmetics...

3. Skill Decay - I agree it should be high on the list, thus either addressed with turning on softcap or just implementing it. However, I still put the others higher on the list because, again, we have a good portion of skills that have no value or make no difference depending on level. AKA combat skills. Why would Skill decay be necessary whenever not all of the skills even work???

You can have your opinion on combat, but combat is useless without some reason for the combat -- otherwise it turns into arena style combat with no objective.

In my opinion? Those three are the ones that need to be done, before anything else. Before new servers, before new crafting recipes, before animals, before combat, before tribe mechanics, before gates, before the mist opens. If those three are not working soon, then all the combat in the world won't matter, because the world will be flooded with items, baskets and bags will be everywhere, and everyone will be a Grandmaster in everything. That sounds like a ruined game to me, versus a few combat fixes that's going to get overhauled anyway.

Arena style combat? whut? What arena? Theres a whole open world...one that has mysterious safe zones that only allow 1 way combat. The subtle changes I propose add a use for combat other than mindlessly killing an npc or button-spamming pvp that has no purpose due to imbalances.

So, you are saying, that improving the combat will not help improve the potential "grandmaster everything, baskets/bags everywhere, etc"? I disagree. If people have something else that they can do (combat) it will fuel interest in it, crafting for it, attention to it, and evolution of it. I think its pretty much critical at this point, since people are having the domino effect and not logging in because there is nothing else to do but craft.

[Saolite]

1. Will ALWAYS be a high priority with every change being made. I figured this is kind of a rhetorical bullet to be made. It will never be perfect.

2. Item Decay - Why? At least half of the items are useless due to broken combat, so why bother making them decay? Seems like a step out of order to have things breaking whenever they are only used for aesthetics and cosmetics...

3. Skill Decay - I agree it should be high on the list, thus either addressed with turning on softcap or just implementing it. However, I still put the others higher on the list because, again, we have a good portion of skills that have no value or make no difference depending on level. AKA combat skills. Why would Skill decay be necessary whenever not all of the skills even work???

2. Why? That's an....interesting question. Do you really not know? But I'll humour you.

Because if everyone has everything and it never decays, then there is no longer a point in 1) Looting people, 2) Crafting items, 3) trading for anything. If everyone has everything they need, they can stay in their homesteads and not really have to worry about a whole lot. On the rare off chance someone gets looted with something they actually needed? Most tribes, at this point, give away everything because of the sheer fact that they have so much of it, and their tools that they've been using since they made their characters are still working just fine, even after 5000 bricks and 500 mortar and 100 limestone walls. Structures can't decay. Clothing. Armor. Weapons. Tools.

And theoretically, everything is useless at the moment, aside from tools. Fixing combat will not fix any that. Adding item decay will fix half of that. The only thing that'll still be "useless" is armor and weapons, since they don't really have any huge impact right now. But better to impliment it now before everyone has 4-5 sets of every bone armor, 4-5 sets of every tailoring item, 4-5 sets of everything -- including weapons and tools. Especially the ones that require rare materials such as obsidian.

3. You going on and on about combat. Which is fine. But there is a world outside of combat -- and Xsyon is based off of that, not combat. Again, if everyone is a Grandmaster at everything, then there becomes no specialization. No need for interaction. If everyone has a running, jumping, swimming, scavenging, fishing, architecture, toolcraft, basketry, leathercraft, and bonecraft of 99, then they really don't need anyone else. Everyone can do everything. Everyone will know every available recipe that's currently in-game due to being able to scavenge them and then simply learn the rest of the sets. Is that not ridiculously broken? It contradicts everything that the developers have said about their vision for the game. Fixing combat, again, will not fix that. And eventually, everyone will get 99 in the combat skills, too, and it'll be a moot point. Not that it really matters in combats current state, which is why, again, fixing combat would not fix anything.

Arena style combat? whut? What arena? Theres a whole open world...one that has mysterious safe zones that only allow 1 way combat. The subtle changes I propose add a use for combat other than mindlessly killing an npc or button-spamming pvp that has no purpose due to imbalances.

So, you are saying, that improving the combat will not help improve the potential "grandmaster everything, baskets/bags everywhere, etc"? I disagree. If people have something else that they can do (combat) it will fuel interest in it, crafting for it, attention to it, and evolution of it. I think its pretty much critical at this point, since people are having the domino effect and not logging in because there is nothing else to do but craft.

It doesn't really matter how big the arena is -- it's still arena combat. It's combat with no long-term advantages or disadvantages. Everything gets reset once the new "round" begins. It's basically Call of Duty, S4 League, League of Legends, etc. In a Sandbox, that just does not belong. There should be something to fight for or over, with lasting consequences. Siege mechanics are not in yet, but a future feature, and a highly popular and in-demand one.

So.....yeah, no. Most of the players in Xsyon don't play for the combat. It's just something to do, yet equally without purpose at the moment. Because losing something right now doesn't mean much, since it's at the point where people have 5-6 copies of everything in the safe zones.

So, what I am saying is, combat will not help improve the situation. It will not solve the problem of people becoming the Grandmaster at everything, because people will still want to be at the top tiers of crafting, and there will be a great many people who will strive for getting Grandmaster in as many crafts as they can. Without Skill Decay, it'll happen. With combat implimented, it'll happen. Which is not what Xsyon is about.

How will combat help the situation with baskets being everywhere and never decaying? It won't. Baskets set to private on "public" land can't be opened. Destroyed. Picked up. They just sit there, further taking up server resources, in addition to just blotting the landscape.

If people have something else they can do, they'll do it -- for a while. But again, it serves no purpose right now. The majority of players won't care, because what is there to fight over? What is there to actually gain from it? You skill up faster by killing animals than you do players. Looting players? I don't bother taking anything anymore, on the rare occassions it's not a naked ganker, because people just don't carry anything I want or need aside from recipes. Most people who kill other players consistently probably do the same at this point, because items last forever until they manually get destroyed.

Fixing combat is not a fix for the games problems, nor is it going to suddenly make the game this ultamate epic sandbox of combat. It'll just turn it into more naked ganking. You can't have combat without crafting in Xsyon -- except for right now. Once armor and weapons mean something ( which is a crafting issue ), naked gankers are all but eliminated.

From my experience, people are not logging on due to the performance issues primarily, and then the fact that there is nothing else to do but craft. Both, however, are being worked on in due time. It's just a different set of priorities.

[grimben]

Stats do advance. My dex is currently 91.

[Proto]

Don't worry Sal, I read Saolites post and there wasn't anything worth responding to.

Just keep telling them to fix combat so there's at least something fun for people to do in game.

[jumpshot]

It is flat out unfair to have a "starter weapon" that is much stronger than anything anyone starting out could get for a very long time, especially when skillpoints put into combat are negligible. To the rest of your #2, that is exactly what i was trying to get at - subtle BALANCES that are very easy to implement and will keep players from leaving.

Ya, you might be right. I wouldn't bat an eye if they just removed PreOrder Weapons.

I think it should be at least noticeable, not necessarily drastic. An experienced fencer and a 12 year old boy who has never held a sword can both stab someone in the eye and get the same result, but the experienced fencer will obviously know how to use the weapon properly for more damage done, defense abilities, and ways to attack without exhausting himself. Same should be in game with skill level, imo.





I was under the understanding that there are no stat point gains whatsoever in game now. I didnt put this to thorough testing, just took it for what it was - hearsay. However, IF it were true, it seemed very unfair and easy to fix rather than just making everyone lose points...especially high level points.

Stat gains ARE in. Mostly from crafting. We are ALWAYS going to lose stats, and we have to work to gain. Some people even have more total points than they started with.

Agreed we could add that as 6, or maybe replace 5 if stat point games ARE possible. But why turn on item/skill decay whenever the majority of items are flat out useless and not balanced? EG weapons, armor, leather, etc. Skill decay is under the same ideology as item decay because there is no softcap atm...plus, dunno about you, but im obviously not going to dump points into something that has no use...like combat atm.

We may have to agree to disagree here! FPS fixes number 1, and I think alot of our game-change-craft in general would be moot if we were playing the game they indended us to play with most of the features on.

Thanks!!!

Anytime, I call em how I see em!

(10blackcharacters)

[Larsa]

...
1. Combat...
2. Combat...
3. Combat...
4. Baskets...
5. Stat points...

... Combat MUST be addressed asap, ... and is the driving force to KEEP PLAYERS IN GAME.

Ive already seen droves of people leave the game with no intent on looking back from various tribes because of the one thing this game lacks - COMBAT. ...

I completely disagree. You might not realise this, but there are plenty of players in a role-playing game that play the game for reasons other than being able to combat.

There are literally hundreds of combat-centric games in the market. I'm more than happy to have a game that offers something different. Please accept that there must be games for players that want something else than to have to fight all the time.