The Best way to handle macroers

[Sorakin]

OK, so I cannot use EasyMacro or similar programs. That is cool. But see I have a mouse and a keyboard that automates clicks. No software required. So I am fine using that. Glad you cleared that up.

Or take it to the other extreme and the people that used programs to help them create a world map should be banned. A map surely gives them an advantage.

Bottom line, everyone knows what a macro is. If they wanted to make macroing against TOS, then they need to add a number and state it clearly.

66. The use of macroing or other automated key and mouse-clicking programs, services, or hardware that allows a person to perform actions in the game while not touching the keyboard or mouse is prohibited.

They can make it sound better then that, but until they give us something like the above, they have no leg to stand on in the macroing war. By not having something clear like this they are condoning macroing without actually saying it.

I love people who make these arguments. What people fail to realize is that agreeing to these terms of service basically means if you are doing anything that they feel is not in the best interest of the game they can ban you (hell I've seen people get banned for doing nothing wrong in games). Not even to mention that the ToS is not the 10 commandments and is not set in stone, they can just modify it as needed and have you re-agree to it. If you don't agree then they don't let you play, if you agree to it and macro you get banned, either way you aren't playing. So many bans sticks handed out by MMO companies over the years where people go complain after the fact that they did nothing wrong, the company states some BS from the ToS and calls it a day...

[Redus]

OK, so I cannot use EasyMacro or similar programs. That is cool. But see I have a mouse and a keyboard that automates clicks. No software required. So I am fine using that. Glad you cleared that up.

Or take it to the other extreme and the people that used programs to help them create a world map should be banned. A map surely gives them an advantage.

Bottom line, everyone knows what a macro is. If they wanted to make macroing against TOS, then they need to add a number and state it clearly.

66. The use of macroing or other automated key and mouse-clicking programs, services, or hardware that allows a person to perform actions in the game while not touching the keyboard or mouse is prohibited.

They can make it sound better then that, but until they give us something like the above, they have no leg to stand on in the macroing war. By not having something clear like this they are condoning macroing without actually saying it.

1. I agree that they might be less vague about it

2. You keyboard and mouse uses software to run it macro's.

"So by commenting on what you perceive as a loop hole, could also be considered a breaking of the TOS."

I like that quote! If there is a loophool it is clearly not against the TOS and telling people about that loophole is not against the TOS. Also "I think some are reading the TOS like you want it to read. " That is because is simply not clear enough? How hard is it to be clear on subjects like this in your TOS. Some games do allow running 3rd party programs as long a they do not do it better or faster then you and you have to be at the game while running it.

The line I quoted could indicate they do not mind it as long as it does not do things faster then you or when your AFK/AFG. I do use the rule that when in doubt just do not do it, but being clear about subject like this would help.

[Sorakin]

Just to show how little rights you have in the ToS here you go:

"Notorious Games reserves the right to terminate or suspend any account that has directly breached the code of conduct or any part of the Terms Of Service. This right also extends to any and all accounts that are in any way connected to the offending account . Upon termination of accounts all rights granted to you under the Terms Of Service are immediately revoked. You may suspend your account at any given point effectively removing all rights and permissions of the Terms Of Service and access to the software. Upon suspension of your account any further payments will be halted. You will not receive any refund for prepayments or loss of time caused from early suspension."

"5. Rules of Conduct:

You will not display inappropriate conduct while you have access to the game and its content. Such conduct includes but is not limited to:

2. Any action that directly, or otherwise, interferes with other game users in such a way that was not intended by the creators."

Ban sticks for everyone!!!

[ryushidr]

Another way to handle it could be making trivial tasks more interesting/less carpal tunnel syndrom causing to do and less of a $£@$!*'+ grind.

It's no wonder people get tempted to do macros when you have to spam your hide key for 30+ mins to gain 1 point in the skill. Click your right mouse key x number of times to pick up stone or fish.

Stuff like gathering static resources should be channeled instead of having to click a key each time.

I think this is the only reasonable solution. If the basic game interactions are not fun then people will be tempted to macro. Banning these players is only reducing the player base.

[Zenmaster13]

I think this is the only reasonable solution. If the basic game interactions are not fun then people will be tempted to macro. Banning these players is only reducing the player base.

I agree devs could make things less mundane. Hell, why don't they give you an "i Win" button (sarcasm). Temptation is just that, Temptation. No one is forcing anyone to macro. If you find it boring, you should not be playing it. Saying you have to "spam" something to level it is stupid. Clearly, the long leveling process is intentional. You were not meant to max it in a few days. Same with all other skills. No one is forcing you to "spam".

Saying that this or any other game begs to be macroed is a sorry excuse to say the least. Generally what happens, is that these people get bored when the macroing program has played their char to max level. They don't play, they macro. Big difference. Then when they can't come out and show off how good their macro program was (pretending it is their own skill), they freak out and come in here to complain about lack of content, etc.

I figure the best solution for people like me who actually play the game is to give the impatient, insta-gratification crowd their own server, with every skilled maxed, every item, etc. All players will have the exact same setup. Then they can continue the epeen contest undisturbed, and forgotten by normal average people who just want to have fun.

[Sirius]

To be clear, 3rd party software, including any you write yourself, is OK so long as it doesn't touch or interact with the client, i.e. send it data or read/sniff data from it.

This has been confirmed by Virtus in IRC.

[Sorakin]

To be clear, 3rd party software, including any you write yourself, is OK so long as it doesn't touch or interact with the client, i.e. send it data or read/sniff data from it.

This has been confirmed by Virtus in IRC.

This seems contrary to other information given... so programs that do simple keystrokes and mousemovements are fine according to that because it doesn't read/sniff any data from the client and blindly goes and repeats motions? Seems misleading, I assume Virtus was misquoted on that, otherwise macro it up boys...

[Sirius]

Read what I said more carefully.

Sending keystrokes and mouseclicks to the client = touching the client, interacting with the client, and sending data to the client.

As long as your software does none of the things I said, it's fine.

[Sorakin]

I don't know how all the programs send the commands. But typically the program sends them to Windows and then Windows sends them to your client via windows API, thus the 3rd party program is not touching the client. Looking the same as if you were actually hitting the keyboard buttons. I think he should just clarify his statement...

[niccoli00]

The funny thing is, it's a vague rule, difficult to enforce and honestly, treat the problem and not the symptom.

People use macros because of the way is designed. I use macro's to perform repetitive tasks. Having to perform 6 clicks per combine when crafting, starts to hurt in the wrist. If I have everything needed, I really shouldn't have to right click it every time.

Does this give me an advantage over other players? I suppose if you consider my chances of wrist issues are lower, sure.