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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by robofriven View Post
    So yeah, unarmed doesn't do much and without something like fist weapons it shouldn't do much (which in the future there probably will be). But to say we SHOULDN'T be able to put points into it is kinda silly. Maybe someone wants to make the game's best boxer and arrange boxing matches at their homestead where they've terraformed a ring. Or simply for the reason that they want to punch racoons to death. Who are you to tell them that they shouldn't be able to get better at it simply because you don't want to? If you don't like it don't put your points into it, but don't try to say that other people can't enjoy the game the way they want simply because this one skill doesn't cater to your personal play style. To say that you shouldn't be able to put points into unarmed simply because it's not a viable option for PvP is the same as saying that you think terraforming is stupid and should be removed from the game because you don't want to change the landscape.
    Of course I would reference Bruce Lee over Chuck Norris!

    Anyway, I didn't mean to imply that it shouldn't exist simply because it doesn't fit my play style. I don't really want them to remove it at all, but given its current state, it might as well be. Sure, boxing would be fun, but there's no mechanic for that right now. There aren't any boxing gloves, there is is "duel," system to really make it worth while. Also, aside from PvP, unarmed is fairly useless in PvE as well. If you try killing a Black Bear with unarmed now, compared to before they changed it, you might win, but it's going to be close. Set aside the notion that you shouldn't be able to kill a black bear with your bare hands. lol

    Yesterday, it took about 15-20 seconds of non-stop punching a buddy of mine to kill him, and that's constant and consistent unarmed punches at level 50 unarmed combat. Yes, he was wearing bone armor, but I got out my preorder knife and it took 6 seconds to kill him (about 4-5 hits).

    I'm hoping that the revamping of the combat system changes the role of unarmed combat too, and I echo your concerns about the dodge and parry system, as I'd love to use that a lot more. I always prefer more agile fighting styles over the brute force style. But, within the confines of the current and limited combat system, unarmed has been rendered useless, and that's my point. Who knows how long it will take them to give us a new combat system, especially considering there hasn't been any mention of it from the developers aside from it being planned. While we wait for that much-needed revamp, why should unarmed be a completely useless form of combat?

  2. #12
    This conversation should be held in the larger context of combat balance, specifically weapon and armor balance.

    I'm huge fan of everything having a consequence. You do this? You get a positive, and a negative. You do that? well you're not as good as most, but not as bad as many either.

    Ideally every weapon should have a purpose, and a counter.
    Ie.
    hand to hand should be great vs. tailored gear, neutral to leather, and suffer a severe penalty vs. bone (i mean ouch. seriously). As you'd skill it up, you may increase your advantage, and decrease your disadvantage, but at the end of the day a bone armored opponent would laugh at a ua character.

    axe would be good vs. cloth, neutral to leather and bone

    club would be good vs. bone, weak to cloth, neutral to leather

    knife, good vs. leather, neutral to cloth and bone.

    just as an off the top of my head example (didn't think too hard on it...again just an example). Weapon mods would also bring weapon speed, range and weight into play.

    How you gear your toon should involve a fair amount of thought...how to max strenghts minimize weakness..or do i use it to compensate for weaknesses to be more well rounded. Anyway, part of a much larger discussion...but one that is very difficult to have without having a real idea of what type of combat mechanics they are looking to implement.

    You can not have a weapon balancing conversation in a vacuum...you must consider how it interracts with the larger game world...weapons, armor, stats, char speed. etc.

  3. #13
    First off Alex. I think I might have inadvertently misread your original post. I construed it as saying "I put points into unarmed, now I can't punch things to death super human style. Please let me do crazy damage again" Looking at it again I don't think that's necessarily what you were saying and for that I apologize. I think the constant stream of "I wanna be leet with no effort" crap that is spewed in forums has jaded me towards posts like this. Overall I'm done speaking of the current combat system as it's going to leave. Everything has said that they've hired a person whose only job is working on combat. We may not have heard from this person, but that probably just means he's working rather then hob nobbing. I'm okay with that. No need beating a dying horse, what we have may suck but I don't really like PvP anyway so I can certainly live with it till it's changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubanka View Post
    This conversation should be held in the larger context of combat balance, specifically weapon and armor balance.

    I'm huge fan of everything having a consequence. You do this? You get a positive, and a negative. You do that? well you're not as good as most, but not as bad as many either.

    Ideally every weapon should have a purpose, and a counter.
    Ie.
    hand to hand should be great vs. tailored gear, neutral to leather, and suffer a severe penalty vs. bone (i mean ouch. seriously). As you'd skill it up, you may increase your advantage, and decrease your disadvantage, but at the end of the day a bone armored opponent would laugh at a ua character.

    axe would be good vs. cloth, neutral to leather and bone

    club would be good vs. bone, weak to cloth, neutral to leather

    knife, good vs. leather, neutral to cloth and bone.

    just as an off the top of my head example (didn't think too hard on it...again just an example). Weapon mods would also bring weapon speed, range and weight into play.

    How you gear your toon should involve a fair amount of thought...how to max strenghts minimize weakness..or do i use it to compensate for weaknesses to be more well rounded. Anyway, part of a much larger discussion...but one that is very difficult to have without having a real idea of what type of combat mechanics they are looking to implement.

    You can not have a weapon balancing conversation in a vacuum...you must consider how it interracts with the larger game world...weapons, armor, stats, char speed. etc.
    On to ways the new system could not suck/infuriate.

    I like pluses and minuses, but I'm also not a huge fan of the rock paper scissors approach you describe either. As far as armor it should be quite simply (in my eyes)

    *Cloth doesn't protect you much but you're more agile and quicker because it doesn't way anything or obstruct movement
    *Leather protects more but it reduces your agility a little because good strong armor pieces tend to be a little stiff even though light.
    *Bone weighs you down making you slower and is pretty awkward lowering your agility.

    (Obviously all of the above aren't necessarily true. Japanese did a lot with cloth and grass armors that were better then a lot of leathers. Hardened leather can be articulated to make it easier to move in, as can be the bone if you cut the bones and riveted it together. But this is a game, and complete realism would pretty much have no one ever wearing cloth unless it gave a bonus when they add magic )

    For weapons:

    *Clubs blunt damage so a possible stun, slow and decent damage.
    *Axes slow (probably same as clubs of same size) the most damage
    *blades fast but less damage per hit.

    Overall the dps of axes and blades would be pretty much the same, clubs would probably do less damage dps wise to even out for the stun.

    There are still pluses and minuses to my system without having a game of rock paper scissors lizard Spock running in the background to determine who would win. If you use blades you hit faster but have to hit more often. If you use axes you do a lot of damage when you hit but the hits come slower if you use clubs you're slow and do a little less damage but you can daze/stun your opponent to probably allow time for another hit or to do something else to them, etc. Make the pluses and minuses independent of the other mechanics (such as weapons not effecting armor types) in the game and you don't have to worry about why someone who is a master with blades can't seem to find a way to stab a dude in the huge gaps of bone armor that a retarded chimp could hit.

  4. #14
    Xsyon Citizen Saorlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    Or it can be left as a tool for boxing tournaments.
    This is totally right.

  5. #15
    Uarmed combat dmg is at it should be... in a realistic point of view who the fuck will go unarmed against somebody with axe, you should actually get dmg yourself when punching somebody.

  6. #16
    I think the addition of gloves and/or brass knucks could help the unarmed combatant. Atleast something that could be equiped to equal a PO weapon. I also think that maybe a

  7. #17
    lets not forget the whole combat system going/ is being redeveloped, many took unarmed at the start just for the OP edge , now they have to use some points to get back on level whit weapon users. own fault for expecting a inferior combat style being OP for ever.

    Unarmed weapons is a good idea on its own, but not for the lack of power now , just for the sake of being more then bare fist.
    doubt they will invest any time into a system thats going to be removed/replaced anyway tho.

  8. #18
    Lets not start getting into this special move crap that ruins every combat system, fighting is fighting plain and simple lets leave it that, we don't need stun attacks and AOE attacks crap that has wrecked every theme park game.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    I think once they allow special moves to come with the skills. You will see a reason for unarmed combat. As it stands now you are 100% correct that UA is not really worth having, and is pretty pointless.

    I would say leave it, and once moves are in you will see the reason for it.

  9. #19
    alot of this stuff was once implemented as well./.. lets not foget this either..


    Update Dec 31
    Features that have been removed:

    - Law, Chaos and Karma. We tested tracking these but the system didn't work out well enough to have the desired effect. This will be revisited later. Good, Evil and Luck are being tracked and remain in game.
    - Combat special moves. These will be introduced when we revise the system. Adrenaline may be incorporated for special moves and boosts of power in combat. Our plan is to examine Mount and Blade and other combat oriented games and redesign the system. This will happen during the Prelude.

    Added after 19 Hours 49 minutes:

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexTaldren View Post
    Of course I would reference Bruce Lee over Chuck Norris!

    Anyway, I didn't mean to imply that it shouldn't exist simply because it doesn't fit my play style. I don't really want them to remove it at all, but given its current state, it might as well be. Sure, boxing would be fun, but there's no mechanic for that right now. There aren't any boxing gloves, there is is "duel," system to really make it worth while. Also, aside from PvP, unarmed is fairly useless in PvE as well. If you try killing a Black Bear with unarmed now, compared to before they changed it, you might win, but it's going to be close. Set aside the notion that you shouldn't be able to kill a black bear with your bare hands. lol

    Yesterday, it took about 15-20 seconds of non-stop punching a buddy of mine to kill him, and that's constant and consistent unarmed punches at level 50 unarmed combat. Yes, he was wearing bone armor, but I got out my preorder knife and it took 6 seconds to kill him (about 4-5 hits).

    I'm hoping that the revamping of the combat system changes the role of unarmed combat too, and I echo your concerns about the dodge and parry system, as I'd love to use that a lot more. I always prefer more agile fighting styles over the brute force style. But, within the confines of the current and limited combat system, unarmed has been rendered useless, and that's my point. Who knows how long it will take them to give us a new combat system, especially considering there hasn't been any mention of it from the developers aside from it being planned. While we wait for that much-needed revamp, why should unarmed be a completely useless form of combat?
    bruce lee and chuck norris are both also in my guild.. lol.. they are inactive right now though... rambo still plays *just thought that was funny*

    Quote Originally Posted by boomer0901 View Post
    Lets not start getting into this special move crap that ruins every combat system, fighting is fighting plain and simple lets leave it that, we don't need stun attacks and AOE attacks crap that has wrecked every theme park game.
    I was thinking something more like a kick or a karate chop to the throat not aoes

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