Seperate Pvp, Pve servers?

[coca]

Jad why do you question everything I state from an official stance. you always contradict me and each time I go to the place I refrenced and have to post snipets from offcial announcements. I would think you would get tiered of me have to prove you wrong over and over... sheesh..

here you go though.. not to show you up but just incase someone else reads your statements and figures I must have been mistaken... read it for yourself without having to use a FAQ or the annoucment forums.. I'll do the work for ya...




Hello Xsyon citizens!

I'd like to recap what's been going on for the past two weeks and give an update on what we're working on and what he have planned for the coming week.

On February 18th we attempted a final year zero wipe. As our dowload server shared a connection and firewall with our game servers, the heavy download traffic reached our bandwidth limit, interfering with game traffic and causing severe lag. This lag exposed various exploits and problems with tribe and totem placement which in turn led to crashes and bad data being saved. On the 19th, we decided to push forward the official launch for two weeks so that we could resolve the problems that surfaced. The major issues were as follows:

Heavy lag due to bandwidth limit:
This was resolved a week ago as we set up two new download servers separate from our game servers.

Tribe and totem exploits:
These were fixed and confirmed throught testing.

Corrupted data saving:
The saving system was revised with additional error checking, double back ups and automatic shut downs in the case of bad data being created. After a few days of server crashes and shut downs, both forced and due to problems in the code, we corrected all issues and since then the saving system has been running smoothly and rollbacks, if needed, are small and without data corruption.

Built up lag due to simultaneous terraforming activity and terrain actions:
After some optimizations we haven't been able to reproduce this lag in the past few days. We are wary that it may happen again, however. We've added some additional checks and measures so that if lag does build up again, we will be able to pinpoint the exact cause much easier in the future.

With all this out of the way, we are nearly ready for the final wipe and real start of Xsyon!

Here's what is currently in motion:

1) We will proceed with a clean slate for the Year Zero start.

The totem survey that we sent out resulted in over 70% of players that placed totems and roughly 90% of players that responded in favor of a clean start. In addition, many totems were not saved properly or were missing from the saved data.


2) The game will start with two game servers: War and Peace.

The main reason for this is to handle our current game population and anticipated growth over the next few months.

Although the lands beyond the green mist were created a long time ago, we spent a lot of time this past year improving the central active Tahoe zone. Our terrain artists are currently revising and improving the outer lands to match the central zone. The first expansion zone should be ready by the end of April. Currently, however, we can't clear the mist so we are limited to the Tahoe starting zone.

This limitation along with the recent addition of homesteads is crowding the starting zone with our current population. This is driving creatures too quickly into the green mist and not allowing enough active wilderness areas for creatures to breed. We have some additional changes to creature AI that will help resolve this issue, but at this point a two server solution is necessary.

Additionally, this solution will help with the land rush and reduce lag when the servers are full.

With an obvious existing split in the community between players who want more of a construction game and players that want to focus on PvP, we decided to use this as an opportunity for War and Peace servers.

- Both servers will allow for PvP.
- Both servers will retain our anti-griefing policies.
- Both servers will start off the same and change over time.
- Both servers will evolve with the player community.
- Players will have the option to create characters on both servers.

The War server will have safe zones removed during the Prelude. The plan is to evolve this server to focus more on tribal warfare and conquest as quickly as possible.

The Peace server will retain its safe zones with tribes having the options to engage in tribal warfare or allow PvP on tribal lands. This server will evolve more for the crafting and building community.

3) The final wipe and land rush will proceed in a controlled manner.

On the day of the final wipe, players will be able to enter the game and form their tribe charters, but not claim any land. This will allow tribes to form their groups and find their locations and then log on.

On the second day, players will be able to claim land, but terraforming will be turned off and combat will not be allowed on the Peace server. This will allow players to claim their lands without entire tribes being online, and once totems are placed, players can log off to reduce stress on the servers.

On the third day, everything will be turned on as normal and game play can begin.

We will do this do reduce potential lag and chaos. The goal of the early entry is for tribes and players to settle in, while the game will officially start with a creature reset on the 15th.

-------------------------------------------

What's next:

We are currently preparing the War and Peace servers. These are at a new location that should provide us slightly better connectivity to players around the world. This won't result in a huge difference from our current game server, but any improvement is welcome. These should be completely set up by tomorrow.

A new launcher is almost ready but needs to be tested once the game servers are fully prepared.

I'm working on a few fixes and changes that I want done before the final wipe. If we encounter any built up lag in game tonight or this weekend, we will have to take some time to work on it as well.

As of now, I estimate we'll be ready by the middle of this coming week. I will post an update tomorrow to keep everyone informed of our progress.


Update March 4

Hello everyone!

Before arguments get out of hand I will make some sure things are clear up front. I see already many misconceptions about the War and Peace servers.

- Both servers will start off the same.
- Both will have PvP with consequences.
- The Peace server is not a PvE server.
- Safe zones will be removed during the prelude on the War server when towns can defend themselves. This is not a Chaos or griefer server, but a server for players that want tribal warfare and conquest. This will happen as soon as possible, possibly within a month or two.
- The differences between servers will be slight. This will not require a lot of additional development, just a matter of settings and switches in the code.
- Both servers will evolve with each player base. The plan is and will always be to evolve with what the player base wants.
- The servers are an option. You can play on both if you like.
- Crafting and social features on both servers will be identical. This is not a Crafting vs PvP split.

- Players that seek a world based on tribal warfare and conflict should choose the War server. That's the direction that server will evolve. Again, it will NOT be a Chaos free for all server. Players that want less danger and future consensual tribal PvP should choose the Peace server. The goal here is one of choices and balance.

- My goal here is to take the need for two servers as an opportunity to accomodate the players that want Xsyon to become a more war and conquest based game. I do believe this is a decent percent of the population
Update March 4

I'd like to say a bit about my vision with Xsyon.

The original design of Xsyon was conceived more than ten years ago. I envisioned a game similar to UO but with with no npc cities and quest givers. Instead players would build cities and dungeons, create quests and play monsters. I was also interested in creating a game that would evolve with the players and with players forming communities within the game that would accomodate different groups and playing styles.

Warfare and conquest was not part of the original design though conflict over claimed resources and player combat was.

The Prelude was planned as a starting point as I knew it was impossible to create the complexity of my original design (many features haven't been mentioned at all) with a small independent team. My plan was to grow the game from this starting point based on the players that I would attract. We've followed this plan all year and will continue to do so.

I do see a separation between those that want a game focused on conquest and those that want a world where allowing for war opens up benefits but is not forced upon them. The difference between world is simply that, where is the game headed? We provide the tools and features, you make the choices and the game evolves as planned.

One last clarification as I need to focus on other things: Consensual warfare would mean tribes choosing to be warring tribes or not. This would be a permanent or difficult to reverse choice, not a switch and would have benefits. Wild areas will remain as open PvP areas on both servers.

As stated below, both servers will start off the same.



March 5

Hello everyone!

After sleeping (just a bit) on the two server decision and discussing this with the other programmers, I’ve decided that there will not be a server split.

The reason for the server split was to accommodate the amount of tribes and homesteads and anticipate growth over the next month or two while we prepare more zones. The main issues are crowding of the Tahoe basin and driving creatures away from the starting zones too quickly.

The additional benefits would be a less hectic land rush launch and the opportunity to evolve the game in two slightly different directions to accommodate what I already see as a split community.

The additional overhead would not be in future coding, but more maintenance and management of two servers and two terrain maps. After weighing the benefits and the overhead and brainstorming a bit we will try to implement some quick solutions to solve the current crowd issues and we’ll forge through a hectic launch and first month or so until we open more lands and players can expand to new territories.

To reduce crowding, we will try to implement the following:
- Slightly reduced homestead areas.
- Add ‘clans’. Clans will be 5+ member tribes with a smaller maximum radius.
- Tribes will require 10 members (as originally planned).
- Tribes and clans will not be allowed to overlap, based on their maximum radius.
- Homesteads will not be able to be placed within a tribe’s maximum radius.
- Tribes will check placement using a middle radius distance from homesteads. This will allow tribes to expand, potentially enclosing homesteads in the way. Homesteads will have priority over their zones. Tribes will have to negotiate with the homestead if they want it removed.
- Tribes losing members will revert down a level (from tribe to clan to homestead). Homesteads gaining members will require a disband and reforming to claim more land as a new clan or homestead.

To reduce the problem of animals being killed off and pushed to the mist:
- Creatures will be able to hide / hibernate, essentially being turned off temporarily.
- Breeding rates will be accelerated and allowed during the hiding phase.

Regarding the future of safe zones and conquest as brought about by the discussion of War and Peace servers:

What I imagine is:
- Tribes choosing to become warring on non-warring, not as an on / off switch but as a permanent or difficult to reverse decision, likely based on tribal actions.
- Warring tribes would be able to conquer and raid others, but they will also become susceptible to war. Non warring tribes would keep their area safe, but don’t gain the ability to raid or conquer other tribes.
- Both warring and non-warring tribes could claim resources that would be up for contest by both types of tribes.
- Some expansion zones being open to more conquest without safe zones, while in others tribes would retain the choice to war or not.

As always, Xsyon will evolve with its community to provide balance and choices. What exactly game will become 6-9 months from now will depend on how players drive the world.

This decision was made not because of the arguments and complaints but arose from proposals from the other programmers to resolve the crowding issues without the additional complications of managing two worlds.

[Jadzia]

- Both servers will start off the same.
- Both will have PvP with consequences.
- The Peace server is not a PvE server.

See ? Thats why I said Jordi never offered a PvE only server. The Peace server setup is what we have right now.

[coca]

The Peace server has the option to remain playing without turning "war status" this elimination of pvp.

Thats alot of word play that boils down to everyone being vulnerable to attack or having the ability to totally aviod fighing players (in my opinion thats as PVE as it gets)

This state of game prelude is more like the peace server or a PVE server you are right but this safe area is also only to last a little while longer until the prelude is completed the safezones will fail to exsist and the server will grow into a harsher more realistic world.... closer set to the PVP or "war" server mentioned above.

My point is this switch and giving people safeareas was the compromise and was done instead of making two servers.

[orious13]

It's not a PvE server. 99% of the map would still be open pvp.

[Jadzia]

The Peace server has the option to remain playing without turning "war status" this elimination of pvp.

Thats alot of word play that boils down to everyone being vulnerable to attack or having the ability to totally aviod fighing players (in my opinion thats as PVE as it gets)

This state of game prelude is more like the peace server or a PVE server you are right but this safe area is also only to last a little while longer until the prelude is completed the safezones will fail to exsist and the server will grow into a harsher more realistic world.... closer set to the PVP or "war" server mentioned above.

My point is this switch and giving people safeareas was the compromise and was done instead of making two servers.

Safe zones will stay on the server after Prelude according to Xsyon's plans.

- Warring tribes would be able to conquer and raid others, but they will also become susceptible to war. Non warring tribes would keep their area safe, but don’t gain the ability to raid or conquer other tribes.

But this really doesn't have to do much with this thread. The OP asked who would like PvE and PvP areas to be separated in some ways. I would love to see it since the current system doesn't work well to anyone, especially the PvP players. PvPers can't find people to fight, some of them already suggested that PvP lovers should settle in one area to be able to find more conflict.

PK penalties are not even implemented yet, when they will be that will be another point when PvP players will get upset. If there were 2 zones, one for PvP and one for safety then PK penalties wouldn't be needed so players who love PvP wouldn't be punished for their playstyle. Plus we would get new players who would never play Xsyon with the open-PvP setting. That would be a much better setup imo which would benefit everyone.

[Book]

One of the many things I don't quite get and maybe someone could help me understand...

Whenever there is talk of segregating the pvp/pve playstyles into different geographical areas, it is suggested the pvp area should have "some special resource."

Why?

If there isn't the critical mass of population wanting to play pvp as their main focus, is the idea to lure pve fodder? That sounds a bit like using the pve-customer base to feed the pvp lions .
Is there something inherent in pvp that warrants awarding that style something the pve side wouldn't have access to? I mean without joining the style they didn't really prefer to begin with.

"A special resource would give a reason to fight..."
Ok, but if there's no reason to fight, why do you want to fight?
"Because fighting is fun!"
Ok, so wouldn't fun be reason enough?

Just curious.

[boomer0901]

Rare resources that everyone wants creates conflict as everybody wants them, and over my dead body is what we're looking for.

One of the many things I don't quite get and maybe someone could help me understand...

Whenever there is talk of segregating the pvp/pve playstyles into different geographical areas, it is suggested the pvp area should have "some special resource."

Why?

If there isn't the critical mass of population wanting to play pvp as their main focus, is the idea to lure pve fodder? That sounds a bit like using the pve-customer base to feed the pvp lions .
Is there something inherent in pvp that warrants awarding that style something the pve side wouldn't have access to? I mean without joining the style they didn't really prefer to begin with.

"A special resource would give a reason to fight..."
Ok, but if there's no reason to fight, why do you want to fight?
"Because fighting is fun!"
Ok, so wouldn't fun be reason enough?

Just curious.

[Jadzia]

One of the many things I don't quite get and maybe someone could help me understand...

Whenever there is talk of segregating the pvp/pve playstyles into different geographical areas, it is suggested the pvp area should have "some special resource."

Why?

If there isn't the critical mass of population wanting to play pvp as their main focus, is the idea to lure pve fodder? That sounds a bit like using the pve-customer base to feed the pvp lions .
Is there something inherent in pvp that warrants awarding that style something the pve side wouldn't have access to? I mean without joining the style they didn't really prefer to begin with.

"A special resource would give a reason to fight..."
Ok, but if there's no reason to fight, why do you want to fight?
"Because fighting is fun!"
Ok, so wouldn't fun be reason enough?

Just curious.

I agree with you, fun should be reason enough But PvP players enjoy the fight more if they get something special out of it. And its easier to find opponents if there is a rare resource node where they can set up an ambush. PvE players don't have to go there, personally I'd trade for that rare resource or recipe book. But in a good setting the PvE area should be totally viable too, those rare resources should only be required for some bonus stuffs.

[Shrimps]

If they keep the safe zones in after prelude then the game is already dead.

A significant amount of players want free pvp. The games economy wont survive without significant item degradation and loss which can only be provided in a large enough amount by pvp. And once everyone gets their cities nice and pretty then what? If nobody tears them down or roughs them up once in a while you might as well be playing minecraft. Not to mention how exploitable the suggested system would be.

These and many other reasons I won't even bother to list are the reasons the game needs open pvp.

But of course nobody likes to discuss facts, most people just start flaming when they get on this topic.

[Jadzia]

Shrimps, all these goals can be achieved with a safe zone-PvP zone setting. The ones who would like more risk can live in the PvP zone, while the ones who like to play Minecraft would stay in the safe zone. This way everyone is happy. What is the benefit of the current setup ?