Something positive

[Sirius]

I'm glad to hear that Ocoma, and it makes sense that they would warn people that their characters will be deleted upon refund but then not actually do it.

Thanks.

[d3m0nd0]

lol, ppl don't wanna hear anything positive about the game. thousands of negative threads, and a very few positive threats and the negative ppl have to come and bring this one down. Let it be, some ppl are enjoying the game. I'll get into the spirit of the thread and list what I consider positive. I'll get flamed for it, cause i'm saying something I I I view as positive, but hey here goes.

I like the terraforming, I've been able to build some neat structures, hope they add more options so that I can build even neater ones.

I like the variety of crafted items. I've been in a few games where everyone looks the same. In Xsyon I see more ppl with different looks, that its fun to see what ppl are gonna cobble together

I like the fact that I believe the devs are actually trying to improve things and listening to the community. I've been in many indie games where I didn't feel that was the case.

I enjoy this community more than most. Usually you can discuss things without too much flaming or ppl being @##@$@# @#$#@@$# 5@$@$#. (whatever those symbols mean, I see them sometimes when ppl are trying to say bad stuff

I enjoy the fact that I know (faith) that more features are upcoming and I'll be here when they first hit.

I enjoy the prospect of the economy beginning to develop as tribes set monetary systems and politics are already starting to happen.

I like that quests are player generated. They aren't used much at this time, but I like the capability.

thats all for now. Now if someone starts a thread on 'some negative things about Xsyon, I can add some stuff there also.

I can do all those things in Minecraft Davros brah And minecraft has more people playing it! lulz.

[datagoblin]

The refund policy contributes greatly to the presence of people complaining on the forums.

The way the policy currently works, you can't refund your account unless you're really sure you will never want to play Xsyon, even months down the road when it might actually be working, because they delete your character if you refund.

Thus there really is no "Give me my money back and I will pay for the game when it is actually working" option. If you find the game worthless or unplayable as it stands now, you're either stuck waiting around in "Xsyon jail", so to speak, or you can take a freaking hike and never come back, as far as the devs are concerned.

This policy craps all over the players who invested tons of time based on the (advertised) expectation that the game was basically ready, playable, and stable, and that only small, short-term roadblocks remained. Those players invested time that they can never really get back, and it's frankly insulting for them to be told they have to PAY for the privilege of waiting around and seeing if this game ever gets off the ground.

Your point is rife with inexplicable lack of understanding and logic. I am going to use a 'just bought a new car' analogy so hopefully it makes sense in deciphering what you are saying. So, you bought a new car, drove it all over the place and were happy to show it off to others. It got you where you were going, but along the way you hit some speedbumps, potholes and someone put a scratch in your new paint. So now the car isnt shiny anymore, yet it still drives you around and hopefully, down the road you can get some repairs fixed...But thats not good enough. You want a refund for the price of your car that you bought AND money back for the mileage as well? It doesnt work like that. When you ask for a refund, you get your money back, the company gets the car back. If you want to drive that car again in the future, you take the refund back to the dealer and get another one.

I dont see how anyone would pay you for your time 'invested'. If your time is so precious that you are investing it into a video game and that investment works out to some sort of real world loss of money, you dont need to play video games. Obviously your time is worth more than the rest of us that play video games at our leisure and for fun.

As for 'advertised expectation' of game play, you need to re-read the TOS. The game play is subject to change, your mileage may vary.

Stugots

[xyberviri]

I'm glad to hear that Ocoma, and it makes sense that they would warn people that their characters will be deleted upon refund but then not actually do it.

Thanks.

Actually Every MMO out there uses the "We reserve the right to delete your character at our discretion" clause in all ToS to protect against accidental deletion as well. Same with inactive/canceled accounts. but i have yet to find one mmo that has ever actually deleted any player characters stored in the dbase.

How ever, if you quit and ask for money i really do think you hold no ownership of that character anymore since you basically played the game and then decided you didn't want this product anymore so your returning it to the store. If your a fence sitter then you should just keep it installed and wait a couple of months.

[mgilbrtsn]

I can do all those things in Minecraft Davros brah And minecraft has more people playing it! lulz.

I'm just trying to say the things that I think are positive in the game. There are many elements that can be played in many other games. I could say that I don't like WoW because I can kill things in WAR... or I don't like WAR because I can kill things in Everquest... or I don't like Everquest because I can kill things in UO.... etc. None of these games have a monopoly on gameplay as far as I can tell. Instead, its how the elements are implemented that make it fun or not fun. In this case I am discussing the positive elements I see in this game so far. As I said in my original post, I can talk about the negatives as well as the positives in this game as well as any other game (minus those I haven't played).

Is minecraft any good? I've heard alot of ppl talk about it.

[Sirius]

Your point is rife with inexplicable lack of understanding and logic.

How you were able to write that and then post the drivel that followed is beyond me. The "analogy" is utterly false. It's a car that never started. It never got me anywhere, although I sunk a bunch of time into it expecting it would run when that critical part arrived in the mail. And I'm clearly not asking for compensation for damage that occurred after I bought the car, but rather flaws existing at the time of sale which the seller made efforts to hide. The rest of the analogy is just utter failure and can't even be properly expressed with the car metaphor because the character data is not something that is of use to anyone else, can't be resold, is of no value to anyone other than me and Notorious Games (it's valuable to them because it gives them leverage over a single customer --me--to possibly make a future sale of service). I'm not "giving" them anything back if I get a refund for a service not conforming to the sale agreement.

The comments on my time investment and "real world loss of money", which I never mentioned or even hinted at, are utterly irrelevant and their presence in your comment can only be explained by logic failure on your own part. I'm not asking for compensation for the time in any way – only that the product of the investment not be gratuitously deleted when the company whose own questionable sales practices put me in this position, who would suffer no appreciable loss by preserving the data which could potentially make the game worth coming back to and paying for if it is ever fixed, go ahead and do so, and save that couple megs of data so I can come back later if I want without some stupid repeat of the painful grind.

How you can liken this simple request not to delete my character to actually demanding money back, with a straight face, is absolutely incredible.

Finally, your instruction that I just "read the TOS" simply shows ignorance of the law. Customers are not automatically bound by TOS included with products and services they buy, case law prevents the enforcement of unreasonable terms, and thus attempting to enforce questionable provisions presents a litigation hazard that is cheaper to avoid than to defend against. And that's all without the protection which a credit card company provides its own customers; I'm sure if a Visa customer is asking for a chargeback against a company, perhaps 30% or more of whose customer base have also demanded chargebacks, they're not going to question the customer. The consequences of a chargeback are doubtless much worse to the vendor (Notorious) than the consequences of issuing a refund, which is the only way NG can avoid the credit co., with whom they need a credit merchant account in order to accept payments via CC, from seeing the chargeback requests and seeing what is up when customers are demanding their money back.

So, yeah. Invent crazy BS more.

Actually Every MMO out there uses the "We reserve the right to delete your character at our discretion" clause in all ToS to protect against accidental deletion as well. Same with inactive/canceled accounts. but i have yet to find one mmo that has ever actually deleted any player characters stored in the dbase.

How ever, if you quit and ask for money i really do think you hold no ownership of that character anymore since you basically played the game and then decided you didn't want this product anymore so your returning it to the store. If your a fence sitter then you should just keep it installed and wait a couple of months.

Hi, I'm not claiming ownership of the character data. And I'm a fence sitter who's not paying until the game turns out to work. I never signed on to the alpha-stage early adopter thing.

[Dubanka]

in most other games, character data of expired subscriptions is not deleted...They don't delete it, because usually they'll do 'win back' promo's to try to suck you back in at regularly intervals, and you usually don't win someone back by telling them they have to start over again.

the character data deletion w/ quit, actually really has nothing to do with the craptacular release...even if the game was running flawlessly...and lets say i get shipped out to afghanistan, for what turns out to be a year...i'm prob not going to maintain that subscription. The odds of me resubbing when i got back would be pretty good upon return, if i knew my account was still intact...odds of me resubbing if I had to start over? II might, but i might also spend more time looking at what else is out there.

Summary: It's basic marketing. Don't piss off your customer base. If they do stop being customers, have a plan to get them back to being customers. I'm not sure whats with all the drama in this thread...this is pretty basic, industry standard stuff.

[xyberviri]

Hi, I'm not claiming ownership of the character data. And I'm a fence sitter who's not paying until the game turns out to work. I never signed on to the alpha-stage early adopter thing.

If your a fence sitter then you keep your account and decide to re sub when it becomes up to par with what you were expecting. if you not claiming ownership to the character data then ask for your refund and get one then when it becomes up to par you re buy the game again?


You probably would like to play the game when it works the way you though it was going to work, if that's the case you already paid the 40.00 a month ago, just wait until later when some one posts everything that you wanted to be fixed and resub then.

[Sirius]

I prefer to hang on to my own money until I want to purchase something rather than give the merchant money in advance.

[Jadzia]

in most other games, character data of expired subscriptions is not deleted...They don't delete it, because usually they'll do 'win back' promo's to try to suck you back in at regularly intervals, and you usually don't win someone back by telling them they have to start over again.

the character data deletion w/ quit, actually really has nothing to do with the craptacular release...even if the game was running flawlessly...and lets say i get shipped out to afghanistan, for what turns out to be a year...i'm prob not going to maintain that subscription. The odds of me resubbing when i got back would be pretty good upon return, if i knew my account was still intact...odds of me resubbing if I had to start over? II might, but i might also spend more time looking at what else is out there.

Summary: It's basic marketing. Don't piss off your customer base. If they do stop being customers, have a plan to get them back to being customers. I'm not sure whats with all the drama in this thread...this is pretty basic, industry standard stuff.

But Sirius doesn't talk about not paying subscription, he is talking about asking refund for the whole game. Thats different.

I have never asked for refund, but anyone who did...what is other games' policy about character data when a player asks for refund ?