Are contested totems the best way for land control

[Hanover]

No need to force extra costs as per allies/mercs/etc imo. Having the ability for anyone to show up at any time for any side is a really great political dynamic.

Some tribes have honor fights - nation vs nation and respect/egos are polished.

Some tribes intentionally war other tribes that "crash" their honor wars.

Some tribes prefer to stay very small - allow them to band with other smalls to take down a much bigger tribe for whatever reason.

Some player styles prefer to zerg it up - let them, don't limit them! Allow the politics to happen...let them zerg if they wanna zerg and others ally to fight them IF NECESSARY!

Rankable totems per maintenance and size imo, and different styles of war totems at fixed costs imo!

This all adds much needed dynamics to a true sandbox environment - everyone has a choice, just has to do it.

You'll find with freedom the ability for the server to self regulate and police. good times

[mrcalhou]

I don't mind totems the way they are currently set-up, if they can only be placed in this area; however, I'd prefer they ditch the idea of expansion totems for the new lands and just allow players to build structures at will. Why bother even limiting where you can build? You should only be limited by how well you can protect your assets.

[Trenchfoot]

The purpose in the cost I thought was to make war a real effort to achieve. The purpose of varying it was to give the little guy a passive way to respond to overwhelming odds.

Of course I already agree with you Sal, I would even go further and say forget payment system costs altogether and let the big dog eat.

Question: Would it be unreasonable to take the cost that Dub is proposing and apply it to siege equip? For example: Different types of siege equip all with their own high building/maintenance costs. Each type having a variation on decay/speed/movement requirements/ranges/effectiveness. The cheaper type could fall apart faster and take forever to breach a wall and be more vulnerable to certain types of anti-siege equip, while visa versa for the more expensive ones?

I mean it just sounds easier to me than a payment system and totem placements. The cost of war should be the cost of war. But I strongly agree with Dub in the fact that taking over totems shouldn't be so simple that it makes it pointless.

[MrDDT]

The purpose in the cost I thought was to make war a real effort to achieve. The purpose of varying it was to give the little guy a passive way to respond to overwhelming odds.

Of course I already agree with you Sal, I would even go further and say forget payment system costs altogether and let the big dog eat.

Question: Would it be unreasonable to take the cost that Dub is proposing and apply it to siege equip? For example: Different types of siege equip all with their own high building/maintenance costs. Each type having a variation on decay/speed/movement requirements/ranges/effectiveness. The cheaper type could fall apart faster and take forever to breach a wall and be more vulnerable to certain types of anti-siege equip, while visa versa for the more expensive ones?

I mean it just sounds easier to me than a payment system and totem placements. The cost of war should be the cost of war. But I strongly agree with Dub in the fact that taking over totems shouldn't be so simple that it makes it pointless.

100% this also.

I think siege equipment should need resources, and require skilled craftsmen to make. Why? Because it promotes trade, and requires people to work with others. You dont want "griefers" able to just build siege equipment very fast, and take things without any kinda impact on trade or crafts.
This will allow for people to only really war over major disputes, or for a real reason. Not over just trifle stuff.

[Dubanka]

100% this also.

I think siege equipment should need resources, and require skilled craftsmen to make. Why? Because it promotes trade, and requires people to work with others. You dont want "griefers" able to just build siege equipment very fast, and take things without any kinda impact on trade or crafts.
This will allow for people to only really war over major disputes, or for a real reason. Not over just trifle stuff.

100% agree.

it shoudl take skilled crafters to build the mechanisms that would tear down a city...the logistics of a battle should be as important as the battle itself.

[Trenchfoot]

@DDT

Right and on the inverse you want something like 'The first cheap catapult busted (heavily decayed through use). They burned the second one down, so we hauled in an expensive trebuchet and they pulled out 6 ballistae and shot it all to hell. Time to call this one off boys and go home and gather more resources for another try later.'.

EDIT: Agreed. Engineers FTW.

[ColonelTEE3]

I just became aware of something that i sort of hit on in another thread regarding the ability to transfer all your items across xsyon -- we currently don't leave a "corpse" full of our loot. Our lootable bodies sit there for 30 seconds to a minute and then we recover everything not taken. Combine this with the fact that, during a medium to large scale battle, no one in their right mind would sit on a dead body, and start dragging stuff into their inventory to be overburdened by while there are hostiles all around them.

Does this not cause a significant problem in the need to resupply gear that is lost during war? I feel like decay alone is not going to be fast enough. If item decay is as slow here as it is in darkfall where it only wears out from constant wear, no one will need to replace anything for at least a week.

[ColonelTEE3]

I just became aware of something that i sort of hit on in another thread regarding the ability to transfer all your items across xsyon -- we currently don't leave a "corpse" full of our loot. Our lootable bodies sit there for 30 seconds to a minute and then we recover everything not taken. Combine this with the fact that, during a medium to large scale battle, no one in their right mind would sit on a dead body, and start dragging stuff into their inventory to be overburdened by while there are hostiles all around them.

Does this not cause a significant problem in the need to resupply gear that is lost during war? I feel like decay alone is not going to be fast enough. If item decay is as slow here as it is in darkfall where it only wears out from constant wear, no one will need to replace anything for at least a week.

[MrDDT]

I just became aware of something that i sort of hit on in another thread regarding the ability to transfer all your items across xsyon -- we currently don't leave a "corpse" full of our loot. Our lootable bodies sit there for 30 seconds to a minute and then we recover everything not taken. Combine this with the fact that, during a medium to large scale battle, no one in their right mind would sit on a dead body, and start dragging stuff into their inventory to be overburdened by while there are hostiles all around them.

Does this not cause a significant problem in the need to resupply gear that is lost during war? I feel like decay alone is not going to be fast enough. If item decay is as slow here as it is in darkfall where it only wears out from constant wear, no one will need to replace anything for at least a week.

I agree, first I dont agree with "respawning" with all your items it should be like Darkfall.
Second I also believe that just on death items should decay very fast while on your body, unless looted by the owner. This will help with the decay. I also think mostly Darkfalls decay is good rate for use.

[Dubanka]

I just became aware of something that i sort of hit on in another thread regarding the ability to transfer all your items across xsyon -- we currently don't leave a "corpse" full of our loot. Our lootable bodies sit there for 30 seconds to a minute and then we recover everything not taken. Combine this with the fact that, during a medium to large scale battle, no one in their right mind would sit on a dead body, and start dragging stuff into their inventory to be overburdened by while there are hostiles all around them.

Does this not cause a significant problem in the need to resupply gear that is lost during war? I feel like decay alone is not going to be fast enough. If item decay is as slow here as it is in darkfall where it only wears out from constant wear, no one will need to replace anything for at least a week.

I don't think it will matter. I think you should be able to 'bind' to your war totem, during the seige window...as it would have been typical for a operational base to be set up prior to a seige...you could then drop your necessary consumables, etc., perhaps be able to perform limited building (ie. barricades) to protect the seige base. so you die, and you respawn as a ghost at your seige totem 9assuming you bound there)...you need to respawn as a ghost, because if they defenders took it over, yhou need ~30 seconds or so to get clear of it to avoid rez killing stupidity.

Seige equipment should only be able to be made during a seige window with a war totem placed. THis would mandate that the attacker needs to travel with supplies, establish a beach head at their war totem, then assemble their seige equipment on site. seige equipment will spontaneously combust at the end of a seige. seige equipment will sponatenously combust if attempted to be moved outside of the original seige zone (ie. if you'd tried to exploit the situation by self warring to create seige gear, then have a player die who is baound to the 'real' seige, with seige equipment in inventory in order to transport equipment risk free...it would be destroyed as you respawned). No stockpiling. Seige gear should not be autodestroyed on death, because i want to be able to use your gear against you

but yeah, having the basic limitations that it has to be made on site, and that it could not leave the area....should solve most of the problems. i'm less concerned about the raw materials to make the stuff, since iideally the assembly requirements for, say a battering ram, would be signficant, so not simple for one person to bring in stuff for a dozen rams. on person might be able to mule in supplies for 1, or a portion of one, but that is a person that isn't fighting, so it's kind of a whatever...not to mention the assemblage of the seige stuff should not be a 1 step process...again for the battering ram...you make ram (wood working), you make the handles (wood working), you make the shields (leather crafting), then you assemble the pieces (architecture). A treb or ballista would require more (wood boards, pulleys, wheels, metal rods, rope, wooden handles, aseembling the boom, the base, the crank, etc. etc.)

in my brain, to lay seige to a town:
- drop war totem in defensible location near target town (should be a min/max radius from tribal perimeter for this to be done)
- establish seige beachhead (3 hour vulnerability window for war totem being vulnerable to damage...if destroyed, no seige) where attacker must establish an operations base
- prep window (24-72 hours from war declaration for both sides to make seige preparation). War totem is not vulnerable to attack at this time, but there is no immunity /safe bubble, attackers are vulnerable to attack.
- seige window (48-72 hours after war declaration, at defenders choice of time)
- seige is decided by attacker achieving objective (successful raid/capture/destruction of enemy totem) or by the defender repulsing (destroying attackers war totem)
- 96 hours invuln window (can't place war totem against tribe) following a successfuul defense. 72 hours window following a successful capture. The invuln window is necessary to prevent chain baning (which is an exhausting grief process).