Are contested totems the best way for land control

[Book]

I'm trying to remember, in the EvE system, do people in the safe zone get resources from the unsafe zones by trading with people from the unsafe zone?

What do people from the safe zone have to offer? Is it that the market/currency system allows the trade? Still, what do people in the safe zone have to offer up?

I guess I'm trying to figure out, if the pvp area with special resources and recipes gets implemented... what do people from the safe zone offer the unsafe zones folks for trade?

[Salvadore]

Just a LOL...

Happened to click on Alex Taldren's sig and went to the Hopi website...On the front page is a banner that says:

HOPI POLL

If tribal warfare was implemented, would you want Hopi to be involved?

71% yes
29% no

34 users voted

Even Hopi wants it...LOL

[Trenchfoot]

I always had an image of this game being like American Indian tribes. Like tiny nation states they would control vast areas without the need to occupy the whole expanse of those areas with large settlements.

Placing a totem to contest an area sounds pretty neat on the surface. But I suspect that any area worth contesting will simply be claimed by a sibling tribe using a safe zone totem. For example: Hey man I need you to quit the tribe and plant a safe zone totem over here. We'll name it 'Our Other Tribe.'.

I mean all you really have to do to claim something is to say 'This is ours.', and then proceed to back that statement up or not.

[mrcalhou]

I'm trying to remember, in the EvE system, do people in the safe zone get resources from the unsafe zones by trading with people from the unsafe zone?

What do people from the safe zone have to offer? Is it that the market/currency system allows the trade? Still, what do people in the safe zone have to offer up?

I guess I'm trying to figure out, if the pvp area with special resources and recipes gets implemented... what do people from the safe zone offer the unsafe zones folks for trade?

The resources that can be found in the safer zones are the more common ones. They are also the ones that are used in the most recipies; now those same resources are also found in the less safe areas, but in the unsafe areas there are additional resources and in the lawless areas there are even more different kinds of resources. The market system allows players to trade with anyone provided they are buying and selling within so many systems of where they are located. It's not a universal market, and storage is limited to the particular station.

The biggest thing with Eve is that the game, and the players, continually are cycling through resources because of item destruction. So while one resource might be the most common, it's also in heavy demand. There's a demand for all the resources in Eve, not just one or two.

[MrDDT]

Yes, it has changed. Check out the Xsyon Update Archive thread, March 5 update from Jordi.

Thanks for pointing that out.
I didnt see that, and pretty much is the final straw for me. Its not set in stone, but clearly you can see Jordi is caving into the pressure to make carebear areas for the people that cant understand that safe zones break sandbox games.

I can understand having starter areas that new people can learn in being safe, but having people make a tribe area anywhere they please, then stand in this special place and go "You cant hurt me nanabooboo" is very dumb and I dont even see the point of having tribes that are not like that.
I can see this system being so exploited its laughable. Clearly its not thought out and isnt in game for a reason.

Oh well, not like the game is moving along to where any time soon we can remove safe areas for tribes anyways. Good / Evil system isnt going in place anytime soon, combat is a wreck and I doubt it will be fixed this year.

He should make it just like ATITD, so then all the carebears can find a happy place to build a pointless work of art.

[Jadzia]

I'm trying to remember, in the EvE system, do people in the safe zone get resources from the unsafe zones by trading with people from the unsafe zone?

What do people from the safe zone have to offer? Is it that the market/currency system allows the trade? Still, what do people in the safe zone have to offer up?

I guess I'm trying to figure out, if the pvp area with special resources and recipes gets implemented... what do people from the safe zone offer the unsafe zones folks for trade?

Eve has a currency system so that makes the life easier there. But you are right about this, thats why those rare resources should be something that gives a plus but not required for everyday life.
If the PvP zone works well that means much more PvP there, even inside the tribe areas. So crafting wouldn't be that easy there, fishing would be risky too. Crafted items and food made in the safe area would make good barter items for the rare stuffs.

[Salvadore]

I always had an image of this game being like American Indian tribes. Like tiny nation states they would control vast areas without the need to occupy the whole expanse of those areas with large settlements.

Placing a totem to contest an area sounds pretty neat on the surface. But I suspect that any area worth contesting will simply be claimed by a sibling tribe using a safe zone totem. For example: Hey man I need you to quit the tribe and plant a safe zone totem over here. We'll name it 'Our Other Tribe.'.

I mean all you really have to do to claim something is to say 'This is ours.', and then proceed to back that statement up or not.

This is something I've been thumping since before release - Having a choice between safe/unsafe is a massively exploitable crutch mechanic that enforces no risk/all gain. Hopefully, the Devs will realize this.

Its not set in stone, but clearly you can see Jordi is caving into the pressure to make carebear areas for the people that cant understand that safe zones break sandbox games.

Nicely put. The crafting paradise that IS Xsyon currently is boring. Hopefully they change it.

[Dubanka]

Come on. None of us can prove any numbers, can we ? If you read my post again I said that warfare would be a lot of fun for a lot of people. So I speak both side of the masses.

But what is wrong with giving people choices ? Want to warfare ? Settle in the PvP area. Don't want to ? Then stay in the safe one. Everyone wins.

In theory your position is reasonable...however in practice is just doesn't work...at least not without creating a major distinction in gameplay. In a competitive environment you can not have two groups of players playing by different rules. If you wanted to be a 'safe area tribe' you would have to rely upon warring tribes to bring you goods from those zones. Safe area tribes just could not participate in the metagame of resource capture, and control (yes you can post the jordi though quote all you want...it wont work). Once you get involved in resource competition, the resource is the drive that creates the conflict. the fights around the resource nodes create drama, which creates politics which spurs people friend and to war....because they have something to lose above and beyond the resource itself.

Any type of invulnerability for tribal areas presents an exploit possibility, muling resources on chars between tribes (ie. every 'pvp' tribe will have a peace tribe storage facility) which detracts from the whole point of pvp...which is having a point.

the only concession i think could be made between a 'war' and a peace tribe would be you would not be able to destroy or capture a peace tribes totem...you could seige it, destroy assets (under a seige window) and pillage it's supplies (Again under a seige window), but those tribe members would always be able to wake up at the tribal spot. In return they would not be able to capture any other tribes or expand their territory. they could seige other tribes under the same terms as they can be seiged. Even that is somewhat exploitable, but there reallyisnt much point in doing so...so it wouldnt really matter.

If this game is going to succeed it either needs to go full blown carebear...remove all pvp, and create a massive set of pve options...zombie invasions, mutated grizzly armies, etc. etc...create pve content to drive a story line.

Alternatively, it needs to fully embrace the pvp element as one of the core components of the game (resources-crafting-pvp-territorial control) and move rapidly to create a functional, balanced system that can be used as a base to drive territorial control, which will hopefully drive resource control and crafting.

I don't see the first option working, but I am obviously bias by what i'd like to see, and by what i think the evidence has shown us so far. In either case, time is short...they need to make up their collective mind on what they want to be when they grow up and get to steppin.

[MrDDT]

Come on. None of us can prove any numbers, can we ? If you read my post again I said that warfare would be a lot of fun for a lot of people. So I speak both side of the masses.

But what is wrong with giving people choices ? Want to warfare ? Settle in the PvP area. Don't want to ? Then stay in the safe one. Everyone wins.

Anyone can see that making safe zones outside of the set starting ones can cause major problems in this game.

Take EVE online. If you had places where people could put a "safe zone" the ECON in EVE would be jacked up so bad.
Worse in Xsyon is its not even a full safe zone, its a "You cant attack members here but we can attack you here". Which means you step into the wrong spot and BAM you are going to die with ZERO chance of killing them because they are "SAFE". "Im touching base, you cant hurt me" is a flipping joke.

[Salvadore]

If this game is going to succeed it either needs to go full blown carebear...remove all pvp, and create a massive set of pve options...zombie invasions, mutated grizzly armies, etc. etc...create pve content to drive a story line.

Alternatively, it needs to fully embrace the pvp element as one of the core components of the game (resources-crafting-pvp-territorial control) and move rapidly to create a functional, balanced system that can be used as a base to drive territorial control, which will hopefully drive resource control and crafting.

I don't see the first option working, but I am obviously bias by what i'd like to see, and by what i think the evidence has shown us so far. In either case, time is short...they need to make up their collective mind on what they want to be when they grow up and get to steppin.

/Thread won by Dubanka...again!