Are contested totems the best way for land control

[mrcalhou]

I'll start this off by saying that I have no idea what-so-ever a contested totem will entail being; however, with the way totems are currently set-up, I'm going to extrapolate that contested totems will be a way for limiting player involvement with the game world.

What I mean by this is that currently we are only allowed to build and terraform on land that is under influence from a totem that is owned by us or our tribe. As far as I'm concerned, that's fine with the way things are currently set-up (though I'm not a fan of them being able to be placed over non-floral resource nodes), but I do not think that "contested totems" should act like this. I think that in places where land and resources are openly contested, then terraforming and building should likewise be open.

Instead of saying "no," the developers should make it so that buildings and terraforming can be undone, but also be protected from being undone. This could be something as simple as increasing the amount of time and resources it takes to terraform to giving buildings enough hitpoints that it'd take a single person, or a few people, quite a bit of time to take a building down. Likewise we should be able to build defensive structures, such as archery towers, to defend our buildings.

[NorCalGooey]

I saw contested totems take up double the space of your original totem per member. With that being said, people will know going into it that the work they do on the contested area may very well be for nothing if it is indeed stolen in the end.

However, original totems must not ever be able to be taken over.

There should be a system for warfare within the main tribal zone and positive/negative consequences for winning/losing the battle, but the original tribe should never lose their hard work capital city. That's just asking for people to quit.

I love the idea of spawning back at the original totem as to not encourage tribes to put expansion totems too far away. So yeah, I say let the tribe area just be a bit bigger for expansion totems.

[ColonelTEE3]

I saw contested totems take up double the space of your original totem per member. With that being said, people will know going into it that the work they do on the contested area may very well be for nothing if it is indeed stolen in the end.

However, original totems must not ever be able to be taken over.

There should be a system for warfare within the main tribal zone and positive/negative consequences for winning/losing the battle, but the original tribe should never lose their hard work capital city. That's just asking for people to quit.

I love the idea of spawning back at the original totem as to not encourage tribes to put expansion totems too far away. So yeah, I say let the tribe area just be a bit bigger for expansion totems.

What a worthless warfare system that would be.

The whole point of a Conquest feature is that... you know... things get conquered. People will lose their land if they dont fight for it. Get used to that idea. I can attest to its success in Darkfall and others can attest to it's success in other mmos. I personally was involved in the manual building of a huge city in Darkfall, at launch of EU server, called kvitstein. The first two or three weeks all any of the 30 of my guild did was build that city. Eventually we just gave it up, and i had to accept the fact that something i wrought with my hands and time was taken from me. Its happened over and over. The only people in that game that cry about losing their land are the ones who deserve to lose it.

This system is counter balanced by the community itself. In darkfall, when a small guild with a small plot of land got sieged by a large clan with a zerg of members, the server knew about it, and many, many times, the server would respond in defense of the small guild against the zerg. There is a big public relations penalty for zerging down small clans with their own little properties in darkfall and id bet it would happen here too.

Nothing would be a greater disappointment than a conquest system where nothing is conquered.

[Koll]

What a worthless warfare system that would be.

The whole point of a Conquest feature is that... you know... things get conquered. People will lose their land if they dont fight for it. Get used to that idea. I can attest to its success in Darkfall and others can attest to it's success in other mmos. I personally was involved in the manual building of a huge city in Darkfall, at launch of EU server, called kvitstein. The first two or three weeks all any of the 30 of my guild did was build that city. Eventually we just gave it up, and i had to accept the fact that something i wrought with my hands and time was taken from me. Its happened over and over. The only people in that game that cry about losing their land are the ones who deserve to lose it.

This system is counter balanced by the community itself. In darkfall, when a small guild with a small plot of land got sieged by a large clan with a zerg of members, the server knew about it, and many, many times, the server would respond in defense of the small guild against the zerg. There is a big public relations penalty for zerging down small clans with their own little properties in darkfall and id bet it would happen here too.

Nothing would be a greater disappointment than a conquest system where nothing is conquered.

You are missing the point that some folks here dont want to partake in the wars. They got to find a balance to keep the competitive -pvp hungry guys like you and the "Sandcastle" builders. It is a sandbox, but I dont think they will force people to go to war if they dont want too. They have been trying to find a balance since they proposed a peace and war server (which didnt go throught anyway).

[mrcalhou]

Asset destruction is a must if they want to promote the economy; I fear wear over time decay won't be enough--it isn't in Darkfall.

I don't believe that PvP should be allowed anywhere, anytime unless players can also build structures for protection like archery towers and hire/outfit NPC guards (you know, the kind that doesn't need to log-off for work or sleep). I also think that some of the game world should be set aside as completely safe, with the most common mobs and resources so new players can get their feet wet without fearing being ganked, and so players can play, while advancing their characters, in safety without being able to completely flood the economy with all sorts of items; just the most basic of equipment, or resources that are needed in extremely high quantities anyway for other recipes.

I think they should get rid of the concept of an "expansion totem" and just allow players to build structures and terraform at their leisure in those areas; while allowing claimable land, like it is in the game now, in areas that don't have rare resources and the resources that are near-by are also needed in significant amounts for most recipes that they are used in.

Alignment should be tribe and person dependent; not "good" or "evil." Either, I personally like a tribe or person or I don't. I don't want the game telling me that I don't like them. I want to be able to set that for myself. This way defensive structures can be set to attack anyone on my dislike list on sight.

[ColonelTEE3]

edit: response to OP

I very much support a system where things can be built outside of tribe territory, have a large number of hitpoints and require a significant time investment from players to burn it down or raze it to the ground. Asset destruction is a good way of provoking conflict and adding some color to the game. I feel like it would be a more immersive game if we could do things like build towers outside our land as outposts, at the risk of it being destroyed if we lost control over it.

[MrDDT]

I saw contested totems take up double the space of your original totem per member. With that being said, people will know going into it that the work they do on the contested area may very well be for nothing if it is indeed stolen in the end.

However, original totems must not ever be able to be taken over.

There should be a system for warfare within the main tribal zone and positive/negative consequences for winning/losing the battle, but the original tribe should never lose their hard work capital city. That's just asking for people to quit.

I love the idea of spawning back at the original totem as to not encourage tribes to put expansion totems too far away. So yeah, I say let the tribe area just be a bit bigger for expansion totems.

What the heck are you talking about, why would anyone want that system? Areas that shouldnt be taken over are only the starting areas, the rest should be free game.

People quit for a lot of reasons, I tell you right now if they were to change it to the way you were talking tons of people wouldnt even start. You need to protect the lands you built.
Back on topic to the OP.

Yes the whole point of totems is to prevent people from messing up your lands, and giving tribes a place to work without being "greifed". What Im talking about is where, one night someone comes in and covers over your whole junk pile, or cuts all your trees down, or digs holes all over your land.

All totems will be contestable. If you want to keep it, then make friends, or have a good defense. Another option is to build it where people wont want it or find you.
I expect (hope and pray) that taking a totem will be long and hard, not something that a few people can do in a few hours. Because it takes many people many hours of hard work to put them up. It should take 10x or more effort to take down a totem area fully than it does to fully put one up IMO.
But if the resources/location/want is great enough people will do it. People shouldnt be attacking other totems often just for the thrill of it. It should be a planned hard choice.

[orious13]

I would assume expansion totems would not have the "safety" portion of the original totems in that they can be conquered at all times without much notice, but have a higher amount of hit points so that you aren't going to have to sit around 24 hours to protect it, but the attackers must initiate the "capture" sequence that will turn it into "holding the territory" until the time limit is down if they wanted to steal it. <--obviously some of this is just my idea haha.

Conquest should allow for all totems to be taken, but that won't happen until after prelude.

[ColonelTEE3]

edit to add to the discussion:

@Orious: I know none of this will happen until after prelude and i agree that whatever system gets implemented, it should (and probably most likely will) require at least a full day to take a totem away from a tribe. This would give the tribe enough notification to spread the word, prepare for defenses, contact allies, alert the server etc. All of this has been seen by many players from previous games. No one likes 2 AM ninja sieges.