War, taking towns & forts

[Jadzia]

I agree with this 100%, this is why the system I pointed out does just this. Both sides are happy.

Like Book is saying you are putting in a system which hurts PVPers (and really PVEers too). 50% 50% does not work for PVPers, so that system doesnt work.
Just like a no safe area doesnt work for PVEers.

My system clearly states, you want PVE and safe areas great. Stay in the limited preset safe areas, with your limited resources and able to build whatever you like. If you want PVP, come on over to the other areas and have at it.
I dont see a problem with this system. You still havnt given a reason why you cant have that system. Ive told you why you cant have the 50% 50%. Yet you didnt tell me why you cant have it my way?

I don't think Book is saying that I'm asking for a system that hurts PvPers...

And I can tell you what is the wrong with your system. The proportion. You agree that like 70% of the players want safe zones and safe play when they feel like. Still you want to restrict them to a small portion of the map. This doesn't make sense anyway, since the PvP area will be too big and again PvPers will have to roam around for hours to find someone to fight to.

I don't really care how big is the safe zone as long as it is big enough to explore, settle down and live in for the players. Put in everything that is needed for everyday life, for building and crafting and I'm fine with it. Some rare resources that are required for building catapults or war machines should be put into the PvP zone. Some mines or something that provide rare resources which can't be found easily in the safe zone should be put there as well. But don't degrade the safe zone to some second class-beginner zone.

I like Book's idea about the specific zones between the safe zone-PvP zone border.

Edit: Just read Book's comment, seems I'm on the same page with him

[orious13]

I don't think it matters how big of an area is safe or not. It matters what's in there and what can or cannot be exploited.

As long as it's big enough for whoever is there, no one's really going to notice if one's larger than the other.

[NorCalGooey]

Because it's nowhere near defined enough.

Improvement on my suggestion but I'll make it quick.


Non warring tribe =

1) Can't attack other tribes, capture war totems, or place war totems

2) Can't be attacked or looted on home land (completely safe land and totem control)


Warring tribe =

1) Can place war totems and capture war totems

2) When tribe switches to warring, safety zone of the Home totem is removed. The only thing that remains safe is access to tribal member only functions and the totem (meaning it can't be captured).

3) When the tribe switches to warring, they also get access to a warring totem. This totem comes with zero safety capabilities (meaning it can also be captured) and can only be placed in warring totem land (whatever you decide to name that area)


This way when a tribe is at war, they have no safe zone to put there resources in. However, adding full totem capture of the HOME TOTEM will NEVER be a good idea. Even for warring tribes.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Did anyone even read my suggestion above? What's wrong with doing it this way? It has everything everyone wants in the most balanced way I can imagine...only problem is with a system like this there is potential for ALT ABUSE by warring tribes. What is this system missing??? I just laid it out quick and simple in a way that can be understood.

The only way to remove that potential abuse is to allow for no completely safe lands, even for peaceful tribes (meaning full loot/damage, just not capture...) but lots of the the people who are advocates of safe land want FULL SAFE LAND (meaning how it is now)


Addition to the warfare system: Tribes switching into warring mode cannot switch back into peace mode for 3 days real time. However, there is no cool down for switching back to warring mode.



Please though, I'd like someone to tell me how this system won't work and why. It's a challenge. Then tell me a system that would work better. Come on I dare you!

Added after 5 minutes:

I think the elitest at both ends of pve and pvp are what are ruining all the games.

I dont consider my self a elitest pvper that has to kill everything that moves because the rules allow it which is basically border line greifing to some.
I also dont consider my self a carebear pve crafter that likes to rp while digging in the trash and crafting by my self while paying 15 bucks a month to talk to other people that are also playing the same game.

With out either of those groups the game could be full loot full pvp no safe zone since normal players dont run around being a bunch of jack asses.

Elitist ruin everything in life. Seriously, it's true. I wish America had the standard of living it had pre-1970s...jealous of those people...but hey it could be much worse if I lived in a 3rd world country or something. I guess I should consider myself fortunate. But the real world as we know it is completely ruled by evil and money changers. I could go on and on an on...but back to Xsyon

[MrDDT]

I don't think Book is saying that I'm asking for a system that hurts PvPers...

And I can tell you what is the wrong with your system. The proportion. You agree that like 70% of the players want safe zones and safe play when they feel like. Still you want to restrict them to a small portion of the map. This doesn't make sense anyway, since the PvP area will be too big and again PvPers will have to roam around for hours to find someone to fight to.

I don't really care how big is the safe zone as long as it is big enough to explore, settle down and live in for the players. Put in everything that is needed for everyday life, for building and crafting and I'm fine with it. Some rare resources that are required for building catapults or war machines should be put into the PvP zone. Some mines or something that provide rare resources which can't be found easily in the safe zone should be put there as well. But don't degrade the safe zone to some second class-beginner zone.

I like Book's idea about the specific zones between the safe zone-PvP zone border.

Edit: Just read Book's comment, seems I'm on the same page with him

I dont think you have PVP'd much but PVPers are not going to have to roam much at all to find PVP. People in PVP areas cant up and move their homes. So the PVPers will just go there for a fight.

Look at EVE, Im pretty sure that EVE non safe areas are much larger than the high sec areas. High sec areas are limited in both area and resources. Dont you agree to this? These area are used mostly for trade.

You are going to break it for PVPers because you will have these safe areas that have and can do anything they want, allowing them to fuel the PVPer branch. Where the other PVP guilds cant stop you from doing it because you are in the safe area, where you can gather all the resources in peace and molested to craft as much as they want to supply their troops on the battle front. This isnt good for the PVP guilds out there fighting it out.

Why do you need such a large area?
I dont really care about what size the area is for the safe area, I care about how its done. If you have all the same resources, you can drop safe areas anywhere you want then its problem.
For all I care you can have 90% of the map if its barren of resources.

I care about making the game work for both sides. You are just saying "We want it all" You want your PVP, you want your safe areas, and you want to do it when you want, how you want and get all the resources and build it up.
That doesnt fly with PVPers.
PVPers want risk vs reward, they want a working econ where people can be stopped trading in an area where they would get large amounts of proof. They want the options to control key locations on the map. They want to do all this at the risk of losing what they built up and have also.


What are you going to do when you die in a safe area, and you lose all your loots? Really no offense but this game isnt really made to fit what you want, its still not even planned. You are working your plans around it, but what you are claiming you want is already not even in game.
What Im claiming PVPers want, is said to come into the game when the game was out of prelude (it did, now its been changed a little).

You think that giving 50%/50% split of the world is the problem because of area mass, but thats not the problem at all, its HOW you want everything else do.

Im sure PVPers would be more than happy with 30% of the map IF it were done like I said.
Key things to note.

1)Open PVP
2)Full looting
3)Totem take overs
4)Rare limited resources (these cant be near any safe areas)
5)Combat system where skill is rewarded more than just numbers.

Those are the keys to these points.
These points dont have to conflict with safe areas. You are just making them conflict because you want everything.
Safe area people this is what they want.

1)Safe area to build up.
2)To be able to do pvp when they want.
3)Resouces to build up.
4)Combat system that supports PVE.
5)Safe areas to trade, and hang out.


You listed exploring as one of your lists of things to do for safe areas. Well I dont think thats limited nor is it needed for safe area players. They can explore into safe and non safe areas. It doesnt ALL have to be safe for them to explore.
You also listed "some rare items for war machines and catapluts" well, what about ALL the other PVP weapons in the game? What about armor? What about city defense?
All these should have rare or semi rare resources that should be limited and mostly in the non safe areas.
Sure there might be little of these resources in the safe areas but they should be very limited.

I can see like basic weapons need to be made by all, but higher end and advance weapons and armor. No. Should be mostly or fully limited to the non safe areas for balancing issues.

[orious13]

snip

"Your" idea seems like the basic idea Xsyon's been "explaining"... "" "" " ".
The problem is that there's really no reason to war yet except for those with blood lust.


If you couldn't tell, the thread recently turned into the usual safe vs no-safe except without much fire. Seems most of the people with the kerosene have stopped coming to throw it everywhere.

[xyberviri]

The only problem with the full loot all the time 24/7 pvp is some people are going to just want nothing but full loot 24/7 pvp and only login for that, so when some one logs in to say today there going to work on X project, 10minutes into it you get a call over vent that XXX clan is in XXX zone attacking, YET AGAIN for the 10th day in a row and yesterday you spent 5 hours online fighting.

[Arkonick]

Looking at this from both sides of the people posting on these forumsI see exactlly this.....

Pvper's need free roam to pillage and kill anyone they choose and special resources and this and that.

Other side....

Pve players are I dont want forced pvp leave me alone I put up with enough hell in life I come here to relaxe and calm down I don't want to go mental in game and go to work tommorow and start shooting people. I'm in no way a carebear and if I bet if we was face to face you wouldn't call me a carebare with out missing a few teeth Just let me relax and calm down.

Pvpers want to strip pve players of fun cause they think pve players ruin game and that they are enforcing them to not have fun pvping. Pve players are asking pvp players to leave them alone and for equal rights but in a pve world.

Only 2 ways to accomplish this 1. Seperate servers one pvp one pve 2. pve world with seperate pvp war zones so if you want to pvp go zone over to the war zone.
And in no way give special items or resources just cause those players prefier to pvp thats like giving pve players special resources pvp players can't get cause they pvp.
only thing special about the war zones you can player kill point blank. Pve is no better than Pvp and Vice Versa.

[Jadzia]

You are going to break it for PVPers because you will have these safe areas that have and can do anything they want, allowing them to fuel the PVPer branch. Where the other PVP guilds cant stop you from doing it because you are in the safe area, where you can gather all the resources in peace and molested to craft as much as they want to supply their troops on the battle front. This isnt good for the PVP guilds out there fighting it out.

Brook said it well. When these goods are being transported back to the PvP zone they can be attacked and taken over. Trade routes, ambushes, caravans, all good for PvP. And since all of the PvP tribes have the opportunity to buy stuffs from the safe area the system is fair.

I care about making the game work for both sides. You are just saying "We want it all" You want your PVP, you want your safe areas, and you want to do it when you want, how you want and get all the resources and build it up.
That doesnt fly with PVPers.

Actually I doubt you care for both sides. You do care with the PvP side, but in a very selfish way. I'm saying let's split everything 50-50 you say 'its not good we want all, if you have half of everything we will exploit it !', I'm saying let's get separated servers you say 'no we want everyone to play in our way otherwise our server will have a low population!'. I'm all for equal rights. You say it doesn't work for PvPers. Thats sad, but why should the majority suffer because of your selfishness ?

What are you going to do when you die in a safe area, and you lose all your loots? Really no offense but this game isnt really made to fit what you want, its still not even planned. You are working your plans around it, but what you are claiming you want is already not even in game.

No idea what are you talking about here. I wish this game had full item loss on PvE death, I suggested that like 5 times ?

Open PVP
2)Full looting
3)Totem take overs
4)Rare limited resources (these cant be near any safe areas)
5)Combat system where skill is rewarded more than just numbers.

Sounds good.

Those are the keys to these points.
These points dont have to conflict with safe areas. You are just making them conflict because you want everything. Where did I say there was a conflict ?
Safe area people this is what they want.

1)Safe area to build up.
2)To be able to do pvp when they want.
3)Resouces to build up.
4)Combat system that supports PVE.
5)Safe areas to trade, and hang out.

Sounds good too, as long as there are the needed resources to build and craft.

what about ALL the other PVP weapons in the game? What about armor? What about city defense?

Everything that is used purely for PvP should require a resource that can only be found in the PvP zone.

[MrDDT]

Looking at this from both sides of the people posting on these forumsI see exactlly this.....

Pvper's need free roam to pillage and kill anyone they choose and special resources and this and that.

Other side....

Pve players are I dont want forced pvp leave me alone I put up with enough hell in life I come here to relaxe and calm down I don't want to go mental in game and go to work tommorow and start shooting people. I'm in no way a carebear and if I bet if we was face to face you wouldn't call me a carebare with out missing a few teeth Just let me relax and calm down.

Pvpers want to strip pve players of fun cause they think pve players ruin game and that they are enforcing them to not have fun pvping. Pve players are asking pvp players to leave them alone and for equal rights but in a pve world.

Only 2 ways to accomplish this 1. Seperate servers one pvp one pve 2. pve world with seperate pvp war zones so if you want to pvp go zone over to the war zone.
And in no way give special items or resources just cause those players prefier to pvp thats like giving pve players special resources pvp players can't get cause they pvp.
only thing special about the war zones you can player kill point blank. Pve is no better than Pvp and Vice Versa.

I dont see how you got those ideas at all
Fact I dont even think PVPers want to be mostly fighting PVEers at all. Most PVPers prefer to fight other PVPers.

I can tell from your statements here where you stand. You are trying to put down PVPers here.

Seperate servers can work if the population supports it, but seeing as we already having issues with this on 1 server, I doubt it will fix by splitting it. Plus you pretty much have a fully safe area here as all totems are 100% safe.

Again my system I laid out allows PVEers to do everything you listed they want to do.

1)Safe area to build up.
2)To be able to do pvp when they want.
3)Resources to build up.
4)Combat system that supports PVE.
5)Safe areas to trade, and hang out.



NorCalGooey,
Few problems with your system.
Things like,
It doesnt protect safe player types from many things. (Totem areas are pretty small).
It also doesnt allow for PVPer types to take over resources, it also allows safe totem tribes to take resources anywhere in the world
It is exploitable by leaving safe tribes then joining them again when you want too not fight that day. IE griefer comes over and causes your tribe problems for a day or 2. Then tomorrow he joins a tribe in your area thats safe (or the secondary safe tribe) to craft or train skills, or harvest resources etc.


There are many other problems but thats just a few I listed because they had already been covered and not fixed by your system.

[orious13]

I'm not really a pvper or a pve-er or crafter.... (I'll probably be ok with whatever. I just like discussion.)

But 50-50 has to include risk and reward just as much as it has to include tangible resource availability.