War, taking towns & forts

[orious13]

There is no 50/50 with No-safe vs Safe if one does not equate the risks vs reward. Higher risk should give higher reward. How much higher is debatable, but even PvE only games follow that "rule".

What it seems like most of the "more safe" people want is either a separate server or a server that might as well be separate.

If the game is going to cater to both hardcore pvp-ers (I think it said that they wanted to) and hardcore...non-pvper (this is more of the basic shape of the game), you have to make both types of players feed on each other. This is why there is talk about rare resources. @Arkonic-> There isn't even a PVE sector without rare resources. To make both sides feed off of each other, you have to have rarity in both areas of play that the other side wants, but can't get and vice-versa. They have to be difficult/easy enough to obtain to discourage exploitation. I repeat...it is not equality without equating risk. Not being safe (getting killed all of the time) is a risk not a reward.


Contested resources are one of the key "features" eventually entering the game... (I'd say warring isn't really supposed to be a key feature yet). The only way this feature can appear is if there is some rarity. The only way the resource can be contested is if it is not in a safe zone. If one just includes travel between safe zones as the part that is contested...that's pretty unfair. If one can transfer the contested resources between a non-safe and a safe zone then that is...fairer, but not completely fair. With this in mind, the "toggle-War-Status" thing Xsyon wants could probably work OK (not perfect, but this isn't s'pose to be pvp centric so that's ok), and probably even be better than the pve/pvp separate-but-equal crap.

The only no-safe/safe area zone split that is fair is low risk/low reward zones and high risk/high reward zones not low risk/high reward and high risk/ high reward. If you cannot handle it the fair way, let's stop thinking like CCP.

[Arkonick]

just one last comment. Those who think you can mix pve players and pvp players live in a dream world. Dreams are nice good at times too, but in reality it will never happen and anyone foolish enough to even think it will happen is dreaming. In reality if you come to me starting a war yes i will act apon you with viloent harmful reactions and kill you but this is a game people come to to escape this pig world we live in and all it's twisted mentality. So go ahead dream all you want that a pve player comes to a mmo for war with other people. Pve players love war but with npc's reasons it don't really exsist anything that npc is made to say or viloent acts are make beleve in the game world and not taken serious. However when a real person starts crap with a pve or another pvp player to induce acts of war it is taken as reality why? Reason its a real person not a fake npc made to say things to get us to laugh and have fun but a real person trying to mess up our day.

Pve players don't log in to a game to go gather mats for 45 mins to get ganked full looted to turn around and try again to have the possability of same person or a new pvp player to come by do it again and laugh and say lol 1hr 30 mins waisted thats funny let me try again. Real life kicks alot of people down every day peoples life stink majority of the working class have hard job lifes. You might set behind a computer all day while some poor guy out there is paving a road in hot sun when he gets home all he wants is to go to some fantasy world and have a life he don't have so if it pertains to none war then let the poor guy have his piece of mind. Don't for one min say they should get a better job or some crap like that some people have to do these hard jobs or they will never get done so don't put them type of people down.

Some might be froggy after a long day of hard work want to throw down to make them selves feel better but this isn't everyone! can we stop one siding this argument and look on both sides.thats why every time it comes to one conclusion seperate pvp and pve zones cause its a dream that will never happen. Pve players don't want pvp pvp players do. So what we do now seeing we have both playing xsyon right now? your idea is a dream and only a dream.

I will say if this is jookys dream to make both exsist in a mmo I will have to be honest with him it's a dream and i wish him all luck and will prey for him but seeing god don't care about a video game i don't think we have a chance in hell to get it to work.

[MrDDT]

Ark, you know other games have both PVP, and PVE in them right?

[Arkonick]

How big is each player base in them don't give me what you think info go get legal documents from the dev of them games tell me how many pve players actually play longer than 4 months. now other games out there have pvp and pve your right on seperate servers not tied to each other pvp player dont meet pve player if they can they can't battle. and if they can well you not finding pve players on there mabe the pve/pvp guy who goes both ways or the pvp guy but you sure in hell don't see a pve player who only pves.

Yea they exsist and they are dying do to lack of player base. Ive seen pvp players turn pve do to the lack of player base. An ive seen pve players turn pve do to the lack of pve content. See every post i see both sides i didn't leave out the part where some pve players turn pvp. but there are pve players that want and refuse to pvp and i'm sorry to inform you are a good number in xsyon. so no i want be apart of forced pvp on them people.

If you want true pvp go play Aion it's nice i played it wared with asmos all time there exspansion should soon be out where destruction of player houseing and all sounds like what youll want rare resources on oponents land and all every thing you been asking for in this article is there. Wait! did you'll come from there and asking for that crap to all come to xsyon? if not go look at there videos and the video for the exspansion 2.0 i do beleve it might be what you really want. pvp gear and all sieges and all in the abyse ability to screw the opasite side up when they try to take a fort while trying to kill the captain and all its np'c in the fort other side can come in and attack you as well all very fun been there done that next.And yes asmos feared me i was a ruthless guardian able to turn a loosing war into victory. I'm not a one sided player i pvp just as good as i pve. If you don't beleve me go ask players in Aion who the hell Arkonick was. I still have old guildies asking me in emails to come back i made war fun and unpredictable. All im trying to put forth here these other mmo's you speak of dye in the pve players that are tryiung to mix the pvp with pve players. But even Aion had a compramise for them that didn't want to pvp they where given quest and mobs to kill in areas the war couldn't spill into so they didn't have to worry with it. while rest of us warred for control over the abyse. I can't one side this game till jooky comes right out says he's going to look at this from one side.Ever hear can't have pie and cake at same time? this is true.

[NorCalGooey]

PvE and PvP players co exist fine in other games. I'm confident it will work in this game it's just a bit more complicated

[Jadzia]

Huh? How is that safe? If they can be attacked in PVP areas they can be attacked. You are not making sense here fact sounds like you trying to pull a fast one.

Just as safe as transporting goods back to the PvP area during downtime, which you used as an argument against this system. If you think that is a problem then this is obviously a problem too. If playing during downtime isn't safe then there is no problem with the transportation system. Just read back your former post.

So because a group of people left because combat isnt working you want to just change the whole game so they will never come back? That doesnt make much sense, plus its not even what Xsyon wants.

You keep forgetting that is YOU who want to change the game, not me. I'm fine with the warring system Jordi plans. Its not the best solution, but I can live with it. It is you who said it would be the 'last straw' for you, aka would push you to leave the game. So if you respect Jordi's plan so much then just let's leave it as it is ? Let's give him a chance and try if his plan could work.

Again, I'm fine with the current setup. I haven't been attacked even once since launch, the warring system sounds fine for me, I have no problems. Perhaps you should stop trying to change the game for your like, MrDDT.

PvE and PvP players co exist fine in other games. I'm confident it will work in this game it's just a bit more complicated

Can you list some of those games ? The ones with full loot open PvP, where PvE and PvP players are not separated in any way and they live happily together. Games which are not dieing due to low population.

[Phatkat]

just one last comment. Those who think you can mix pve players and pvp players live in a dream world. Dreams are nice good at times too, but in reality it will never happen and anyone foolish enough to even think it will happen is dreaming. In reality if you come to me starting a war yes i will act apon you with viloent harmful reactions and kill you but this is a game people come to to escape this pig world we live in and all it's twisted mentality. So go ahead dream all you want that a pve player comes to a mmo for war with other people. Pve players love war but with npc's reasons it don't really exsist anything that npc is made to say or viloent acts are make beleve in the game world and not taken serious. However when a real person starts crap with a pve or another pvp player to induce acts of war it is taken as reality why? Reason its a real person not a fake npc made to say things to get us to laugh and have fun but a real person trying to mess up our day.

Pve players don't log in to a game to go gather mats for 45 mins to get ganked full looted to turn around and try again to have the possability of same person or a new pvp player to come by do it again and laugh and say lol 1hr 30 mins waisted thats funny let me try again. Real life kicks alot of people down every day peoples life stink majority of the working class have hard job lifes. You might set behind a computer all day while some poor guy out there is paving a road in hot sun when he gets home all he wants is to go to some fantasy world and have a life he don't have so if it pertains to none war then let the poor guy have his piece of mind. Don't for one min say they should get a better job or some crap like that some people have to do these hard jobs or they will never get done so don't put them type of people down.

Some might be froggy after a long day of hard work want to throw down to make them selves feel better but this isn't everyone! can we stop one siding this argument and look on both sides.thats why every time it comes to one conclusion seperate pvp and pve zones cause its a dream that will never happen. Pve players don't want pvp pvp players do. So what we do now seeing we have both playing xsyon right now? your idea is a dream and only a dream.

I will say if this is jookys dream to make both exsist in a mmo I will have to be honest with him it's a dream and i wish him all luck and will prey for him but seeing god don't care about a video game i don't think we have a chance in hell to get it to work.

This is true. However, this is a sandbox where theortically everything is supposed to be allowed to happen.
Seems like the majority of people here are interested in PvP. The game isnt fucosed entirly on PvP but it is a large part of the game, and the general
xsyon community wants it to be an even larger part of the game. There are plenty other games where people can go and sit around and craft and enjoy themselves,
thats fine. Not many games with full loot PvP. Some of us deserve a chance to have that game. Besides going out and gathering materials with the risk of dieing contirbutes to the game in tremendous ways.

[xyberviri]

can we stop one siding this argument and look on both sides.thats why every time it comes to one conclusion seperate pvp and pve zones cause its a dream that will never happen. Pve players don't want pvp pvp players do.

Yes lets please stop one siding the discussion.... instead of insisting that we need separete zones how about tring to add to a way to promote healthy game discussion.

This is true. However, this is a sandbox where theortically everything is supposed to be allowed to happen.
Seems like the majority of people here are interested in PvP. The game isnt fucosed entirly on PvP but it is a large part of the game, and the general
xsyon community wants it to be an even larger part of the game. There are plenty other games where people can go and sit around and craft and enjoy themselves,
thats fine.

NO the Majority is NOT intested in PvP, how ever I am intrested in it, im not intrested in ganking noober pve crafter rp trash diggers, that just want to RP there alone in the world and pay 15.00 a month for a glorifyed chat program. Im intrested in pvping with other pvpers, in having that doubt that maybe this trader might kill me.

I dont want my game watered down with rules and artificial limits because the community couldn't police itself.

Most of the people i talk to want to hunt and build and craft AND pvp. Theres plenty of no pvp craft a bunch sit in the sand and rp with your buddies about crafting games out there.

Not many games with full loot PvP. Some of us deserve a chance to have that game. Besides going out and gathering materials with the risk of dieing contirbutes to the game in tremendous ways.

^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

[MrDDT]

Just as safe as transporting goods back to the PvP area during downtime, which you used as an argument against this system. If you think that is a problem then this is obviously a problem too. If playing during downtime isn't safe then there is no problem with the transportation system. Just read back your former post.


You keep forgetting that is YOU who want to change the game, not me. I'm fine with the warring system Jordi plans. Its not the best solution, but I can live with it. It is you who said it would be the 'last straw' for you, aka would push you to leave the game. So if you respect Jordi's plan so much then just let's leave it as it is ? Let's give him a chance and try if his plan could work.

Again, I'm fine with the current setup. I haven't been attacked even once since launch, the warring system sounds fine for me, I have no problems. Perhaps you should stop trying to change the game for your like, MrDDT.

I didnt say during the downtime, Im saying at the downtime, meaning where its low POP. Plus Im talking about the little amount of time it takes to protect it. Meaning you can muster a ton of people to be online at a set time frame and protect your goods for a very small amount of time frame. So you put in 1000s of hours crafting it in a 100% safe area, then move it within an hour to PVP area where you need it for war. Its not a good system for waring tribes.
The crafting time is what takes the longest as does the gathering the resources. NOT the transferring it part. So being able to craft it in peace (like you are saying people can log in at the downtime and craft it) isnt really going to happen in the PVP areas because the low pop times are only a small part of the day, it would take 10x longer to craft only during these times than it would be to transport only during these times.

Oh you saying NOW its me that wants to change it after all the whining you did to get him to change it in the first place? Plus right now we are in Prelude. So you going to be ok after prelude once the areas are no longer safe?
Hey, no worries then. Im sure you will be crying later once your system you think you are ok with, gets put in and you are dying next to a tribe thats griefing you everyday and there is NOTHING you can do about it.
See I do have foresight and I know that WILL be a problem for YOU and the game. Im not here just looking out for PVPers as you so blindly thing I am. Im here to say a system that WORKS. Not just for PVPers but for PVEers.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post46010
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...full=1#post223
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post45983
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post38972

This link here talks about what you think OPEN pvp is. When Jooky has stated the game would be "Open PVP" clearly you didnt see safe areas.
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post32686
Mod posting the game is OPEN pvp.
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post20003

Here you state yourself that they will ONLY be safe during prelude. This is what you have had him changed. Its because of all the posts after SEE ABOVE that has changed it. Im saying why this change is bad. I and other people were gone for a while waiting for the game. Its forum warriors like you that have been here the tick in the side of the game causing these issues to change. Well Im back now, and I can see how bad of a direction you have changed it. Clearly for the worse.
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post32874

Here he outlined the PVP system. Which has been changed because of people like you.
http://xsyon.com/forums/28-features/...-and-decisions


Sadly because of the search issues only going back so far thats the only links I can post.

Xsyon started off OPEN pvp, with safe areas for prelude to build up, then they were going to be removed.

Now they are safe areas anywhere, and will be anywhere.

Its because of some of your posts and others like you that have caused this, you have been whining "We will quit if you do that", and other things.

Im here to try to set it straight on its first path, the path that many have joined this game for the sandbox, and open PVP.

Can you list some of those games ? The ones with full loot open PvP, where PvE and PvP players are not separated in any way and they live happily together. Games which are not dieing due to low population.

Linage 2. Many other games like it too.

[Jadzia]

I've never said I would quit, you did. And you suppose I have some kind of influence on Xsyon which is pretty funny, lol, if I had it wouldn't be set up like it is now.
This is Jordi's game. He said safe zones will stay till we get the buildings (walls, gates) which can replace them. I was fine with it, I don't care if its a magical barrier which gives protection or a wall, although the walls-gates have some serious disadvantages. Probably Jordi discovered these disadvantages so he has changed his mind, and safe zones will stay in game for the ones who wants them. I'm fine with this, and will stay in the game. Warfare will be optional, safe zones will be optional, it sounds all good for me. You should stop to try to change the game to better fit to your taste.