Some critics

[MrDDT]

I just read a comment on mmorpg.com. Someone said he left the game because some asshole clearcut every tree in his area, then the same person started to pave the junkpiles. Sounds like you, MrDDT...you can congratulate yourself. One customer is down, some hundreds more to go. Your faith in your own superiority will help you to finish your mission.

How many people have quit because they were killed in PVP? Should we remove PVP too?
How many people have quit because there is safe areas? Should we remove safe areas?

So someone got upset.
That person didnt even play the game it was because of people like you that are "OMG we cant have people cutting all the trees" that lead him to not buy the game. If he would have logged in and saw that there was tons of junk piles there wouldnt be a problem.

Trees we all know is a problem, they are working on respawning them all AND making them regrow. Dont blame me for skilling up my skills. ALL those resources are still in game. I didnt delete the trees, I chopped them.

Stop crying on the forums and causing people to quit. Let them log in first before they quit because of a safe zones, broken combat, boring crafting, and a game with a major lacking econ first. Oh wait those are the things Im trying to get working correctly. Right? See Im putting ideas on the forums to fix the real issues, not whine about someone cutting a tree to close to my totem.

I believe things like this also need to be fixed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBiKD-ibeuE
Clearly those buildings shouldnt be that easy for someone to take down. It should be hard to take down, it shouldnt take 5 seconds to kill someones work they put in hours and hours of work into.

These issues need to be addressed and fixed before players start getting into the game en mass.

Paving over junk piles and cutting trees is NOT the problem, its other issues that are causing people to be upset. If trees were able to be planted, and regrow. No one would care as much if someone cut a few trees down.
Also if trees took longer to cut, like instead of 5s it was like 2 mins. Then it wouldnt be as big of a problem either.
But you dont fix the system with magical safe zones.


[Edit]
I just found this little gem of info from the features page.

Resources can be controlled and destroyed to reduce supply.

Im not 100% sure what that means, but Im guessing it has to do more with players doing it and less with the devs doing it.

[Book]

How do you ever have an antagonist when the game 'forces' everyone behave?

Or is it that you like your opposition without any teeth?

I'm not after anybody's teeth

Not even trying to advocate for more safety, to the contrary. I'm trying to point out that the extreme measures put in place for safety are the result of extreme behavior that wound up making it a good idea to the devs. There's a reason artificial measures are put in place. Don't want artificial measures? Me neither, just don't behave in such a way that Devs have to implement them.

I'm suggesting people take ownership of the solution by moderating themselves in light of those around them... just a bit. The answer I get is "Well, the game lets me do it so it's okay!" I think everybody is capable of a bit more than that.

All for the idea of being an archer in a big battle, or cavalry. Looked forward to it when I bought the game. No desire to remove anyone's pvp fun... No desire to dull it down, or make it any less enjoyable.

I'd even donate a satchel full of nails to buy you some killer dentures if it comes to that

[Trenchfoot]

@jadz

Shhh. You'll ruin my reputation.

But that does bring up a good point. Not everyone who argues for an open world argues for freedom so that they can give their neighbor grief.

When evil is forced to 'behave' you don't have evil. And consequently where does that leave good?

It becomes an unbalanced equation. So that:

An evil action proves you're evil. But there are no good actions to prove you're good. Good is then relinquished to do 'nothing' in order to perform goodness. Which is dull at best.

This kind of system believe it or not favors evil, which isn't really that evil because they're forced to behave.

There is nothing more satisfying in pvp than to battle a worthy opponent. Part of being worthy is the skill they bring to combat. But a large part of that worthiness comes from their opposition outside of combat. By allowing justice to be served and wrongs to be righted by the players, it allows good to 'prove' their goodness. So that both good an evil have an equal course. When only evil has a course laid out in the game mechanics, everyone becomes evil by proxy (but not too evil).

When you force evil to behave, there are no worthy opponents. Your only opponent so to speak, becomes the game mechanics itself. ie. finding loopholes in the system to allow you to perform truly evil actions without being branded evil by the game.

Now whoever can go ahead and make your 'policing' argument...

EDIT: Granted a finished game would clear up 50% of this argument. Safe zones and limits for the time being are probably needed until everything is established.

[mrcalhou]

There should be PROS and CONS to EVERYTHING. A sandbox game isn't a game that has no restrictions. A sandbox game is a game where you are allowed to choose how you want to play based on a decision you have to make. They need to make the game BALANCED; not free from consequence. And this goes for "good" and "evil" equally. Personally I prefer shades of gray.

Safe zones are NOT a bad thing. If they are balanced properly. The problem is that most developers just don't have a clue how to do it. But, if Eve can make a working sandbox, then it can be done by others.

[Dubanka]

ddt and book are both right...two points on the trinity...

- you have the freedom to be a douche (ie. game mechanics permit you to do it, without any degree of exploit...it is in the design to be a douche)

- you choose to be a douche (there is a level of personal decision making...just because you can, doesn't mean you have to or should...but you do. thats a choice)

the part of the game that is completely missing...

- you can be held accountable for being a douche (currently, you can be a douche, you choose to be a douche, and there is nothing i can do about it except cry on the boards. sad state of affairs imo).

at the end of the day, without accountabilility...whats the point?

[Eduard]

I just read a comment on mmorpg.com. Someone said he left the game because some asshole clearcut every tree in his area, then the same person started to pave the junkpiles. Sounds like you, MrDDT...you can congratulate yourself. One customer is down, some hundreds more to go. Your faith in your own superiority will help you to finish your mission.

I don't believe what you just said to him... I hope you realize there is a million of reasons why would ppl quit or be unhappy... he killed all animals around, he killed me while I was AFK, he ruined my view by building tent in front of my homestead, he teraformed that junkpile, he made an ugly character and I don't like it, he killed me again while I was in toilet aaaaaaa.... etc

WTF?

What if he cut all the trees in game? He will have all the trees and tree price will rise so he will be very rich char in game or he will have a lot of enemies who want to steal trees from him ... ITS A GAME - there is no honor system and this is not Utopia ffs.
Or switch to single player games where nobody will cut your trees ...

You have walls - use them - guard your tribe wood and problem solved.

[Josluc]

MrDDT why do you have a guest account ,is a guest account subscription free if so why should i pay while you can do as you please building roads on junkpiles clearing trees ?

[yantal_Oh]

well, i've rode all the messages, i did'nt understand all, because my english isn't very good. But i understood that someones think funny to cut all the trees, as much as they can, and destroy junkpiles, because it's funny too, it's ennoy the others, and they think it has an economic interest ! (MRDDT) I dont think it's true when mrddt says he do this to boost the economy. If you destroy all the first necessity ressources, there's not one chance to make economy. It will be a desert. I think that mrddt wants the game for himself only. When the trees will grow, mrddt will not be a problem at all, because i cant believe he will cut all day long and all night long all the trees of the game. It would be very stupid. As it's very stupid to think for the other people. Each one play the game as he wants to. For me, i'm a solo player, for the moment. It's nice for me crafting, fishing, and harder to find branches for making my fence. I have one tree on my area, but it has been cut off and dont grow. But i have a lot of things to do, scavenging on the junk piles for example. And i saw someones who destroyed the junkpiles, i thought it was an error from the people to do this. I'm very sad for you, mrddt, to see it's intentional. Don't you have more things to do ? Well it doesn't matter anyway. In each mmo i can see pk who ennoy other players, in this game it's about the primary ressources. We will see.

[Azhul_NS]

@ Yantal - No. It's not griefing. The game rewards you with skill ups and xp for cutting down trees. Same with road building.

Also - anyone in this world who is not your friend, is your enemy. Denying resources to the enemy is a crucial part of warfare.

[MrDDT]

I think its very funny how people are crying about my tree cutting issues. When now high logging skill is required to make master items.
I have so many trade deals going on right now, I cant even think of how many I would have if I leveled up tool crafting or weapon crafting.

Also, Ive seen many people now understand why you need logging high, and also have started cutting many trees, even some said they are going to clear cut areas now too. The same people that were upset with me doing it, are not understanding why I had to do it.

As I have always said, dont blame me, blame the system on no regrowth, and how you have to level up the skill.

Ive said it many times, logging skill needs to be done differently.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post81708

Ive posted this before.

I think they should make it so that felling a tree gives skill for logging (like it does now) but it should take like 5 to 10 tries to fell a tree. Each one gives a chance to get skill (like now), then each time you chop a felled tree into a log it should give a chance to give a skill for logging. You chop up each felled tree 5 to 20 times depending on its yield. Each chop should give like 1 to 3 logs.

This would mean that felling a tree would take about 25 to 150 seconds to fell, depending on your skill and tree size. Then it would take about 25 to 300 seconds to get 5 to 60 logs out of it.

Right now it takes 5seconds to 15second to fell a tree. Then 5 to 15 seconds to get 1 to 26 logs. With each tree giving 1 chance to get logging skill.
The new way (my idea) you can get 10 to 30 chances per tree to get logging per tree.

So please dont get upset with me because I had the forethought to understand how the system works, and make my skills useful for trade.