Perma death for evil characters

[Book]

EDIT: Wouldn't mind seeing my corpse become a spawn point for zombies until my death is avenged... hehe

lol, I like it. Would be kind of fun I think if you were the zombie. Couldn't loot with it or anything, the original winner still gets the spoils, but just for the fun of it.

I also still want to be able to pack a bin on my back with 10 angry marmots that avenge me when I'm looted too

Heavy wounding system sounds interesting. When wars come about, could really change the strategy needed if you can't get auto-reinforcements.

[Dubanka]

What is with all of "bonus for evil people" thing? What kind of bonus does a killer have around us? None.

"Good" characters craft their stuff, trade and work for a living. Bonus = everyone will trade with you and you can prosper if you work hard.

"Evil" ones steal and kill. Bonus = you get stuff others took loong time to craft in just one kill, sometimes with almost 0 effort. What else would an evil man want? Ability to fly and shoot laser beams out of his nostrils?

If you opt to kill and steal you should accept the consequences (and there are none for now so this is kind of pointless). Same as the good guy accepted that he will have to work hard to get where he wants to be.

What exactly are you afraid of?

Here's a problem with making 'evil' overly detrimental- no one will be evil. I know, you're like YAY THATS THE POINT! But that wasn't my point.
I'd make a mule / trade char to hold my stuff.
I'd make a 'good' char to pk with. I'd pk with the 'good' char until such time that the 'evil' penalities racked up to being meh.
Then, i'd delete the pk toon, remake another good one, and start over.

You don't want that.

You want your evil players to play as evil...for this to happen, there has to be an upside to it. If it's all pits, and no cherries...well there's no point.

and by the way, your 'bonus' to evil, is no different than a playstyle open to anyone else...Anyone can kill anyone at any time...but now, if i'm 'evil' i get penalized for it...that is wonderful game design there.

perma death is lol...unless of course you want to have permadeath for failing on crafting as well.

[xyberviri]

What exactly are you afraid of?

Here's a problem with making 'evil' overly detrimental- no one will be evil. I know, you're like YAY THATS THE POINT! But that wasn't my point.
I'd make a mule / trade char to hold my stuff.
I'd make a 'good' char to pk with. I'd pk with the 'good' char until such time that the 'evil' penalities racked up to being meh.
Then, i'd delete the pk toon, remake another good one, and start over.

You don't want that.

You want your evil players to play as evil...for this to happen, there has to be an upside to it. If it's all pits, and no cherries...well there's no point.

and by the way, your 'bonus' to evil, is no different than a playstyle open to anyone else...Anyone can kill anyone at any time...but now, if i'm 'evil' i get penalized for it...that is wonderful game design there.

perma death is lol...unless of course you want to have permadeath for failing on crafting as well.

yups exactly the point i was tring to make.

[Plague]

You are missing the point. There is no penalty for being evil. There should be one. Even if its only not being able to trade to anyone. Else this risks becoming another darkfall where Durins will run around chopping down trees, paving junkpiles and screwing it up in general for everyone and all you can do is kill them million times only for them to come back when you sleep.

[MrDDT]

I think we can all agree there should be some Good and Evil bonuses and punishments in the game.
But they should be balanced is what I get people saying.

[Book]

You are missing the point. There is no penalty for being evil. There should be one. Even if its only not being able to trade to anyone. Else this risks becoming another darkfall where Durins will run around chopping down trees, paving junkpiles and screwing it up in general for everyone and all you can do is kill them million times only for them to come back when you sleep.

We should draw a distinction between the evil label that is necessary for varied gameplay (so there is some good-natured strife), and the evil behavior unrelated to the label... the kind of behavior that isn't quite so good-natured.

Kinda feels like people are discussing two different kinds of evil right now. The one that helps the game, and the one that doesn't.

[MrDDT]

I think like Book is saying, is that Plague you and others, are also trying to lump griefers in with "Good / Evil" actions.

Just looting a player, or killing them is an evil action unless that player is evil.
Killing someone is an evil action, unless that player is evil.

Paving over a junk pile, and clear cutting trees are not "evil" actions in game. They can be used as a griefing since, if those were not ways to limit the resources in game.
I understand how you can be upset, because there is no way to truly stop these players from doing this, that's another problem having less to do with good vs evil. It has to do more with other aspects of the game.
If combat were working correctly, and death penalties were in the game, it would be another story IMO.

[Venatos]

i think the problem will resolve itself when this mystical good/evil thing is released, until then i would favour a harsh death penalty(attribute wise) that can be eased by other players, through rare items(plants) or over time.

the penalty shouldnt render the player imobile, but make him slow, getting out of breath easyly, cant take or deal much damage, and so on > just making him useless in a fight, can still forage, scavange, fish, and so on.

if the killed/resourected player moves around and forages and stuff the penalty subsiedes slowly over an hour or so, if he rests its gone in half an hour and if he has help from an other player or one of the rare plants he could be up in about 15minutes.

this would apply to good and evil players, the difference is: the good player can just go on with what he was doing in the first place(gather resources/food) just a little slower or is likely to have someone of the tribe helping him or get one of the plants from the tribe storage.
the evil player isnt big at collection and working, so is likely to have no healing plant, most evil player tribes are small in comparison so its more likely that there is noone online to help him, as he doesnt realy want to go fish and pluk berrys he has only one option left > resting for half an hour

all this are only possibilitys, but i think they work in favour of the good guys.

[Creator]

I think we can all agree there should be some Good and Evil bonuses and punishments in the game.
But they should be balanced is what I get people saying.

word .

[darkbladed]

Why not give evil people a +10% bonus to combat stats but a -20% to combat stats for 2 hours if they get killed (and each death with the debuff increases it by 10% and resets the timer to 2 hours).
The debuff should also disallow crafting during that time and only count down while they are outside totem area and online; resetting if they go back within totem a safe zone.

also maybe we can have a system of reputation + or - that each player can use once a day (on non-tribe members) with consequences for those that get too many -s and bonuses for those who get a lot of +s for being helpful

Who gives these + and - should be tracked so someone can not create 2-4 accounts and fix/destroy a reputation