best of the best of the best of the best

[Dubanka]

ok. Just to hilight a problem...from a min max standpoint wwhats the 'best'.

armor: bone? is there a reason to wear anything other than bone if you know you're going to be fighting?

weapon: Does it matter which weapon...po axes and hammers are pretty brutal, is there any reason to use anything other than a po axe (since you can chop down trees with it as well).

clothes: Is there a reason to wear clothes? do they do anything besides encumber (i haven't noticed)

food: is there a reason to eat anything besides fish?

skills: is there a reason to take anything besides basketry and tool making?

so yeah...best of the best list.

[NorCalGooey]

Master Quality bone armor and Master Quailty offhand weapon with a PO is min max. (or supreme quality, if people can make those)

Ooo that was hard.




We need a lot better gear and make it harder to make than just "you need master quailty resources and high level skill"

Ideally i would like to see something like this

current armor sets now master quality < rare resource armor sets poor quality < very rare resource armor sets poor quality < rare resources high quality < very rare resources moderate quality < very rare resource master quality set




then they need something like gems or enchants (wow anyone? sorry) however, these wont be like WoW and extremely easy and invaluable to add to your gear (unlike WoW, everyone wont have enchants and gems (or what you can simply call additional upgrade bonuses, for lack of a better term)... these will be very, very, very rare and only the best of the best will have them. perhaps not rare in the sense that we do not know the location of the resources needed to craft additional upgrade bonuses...but rare in the sense that there are only a handful of locations to get these very rare resources and to get them you need to be A) really lucky and have no one else in the area looking for those resources or B) bring a party with you to defend while trying to find and gather rare resources.





that was extremely easy to think of in less than 10 minutes....come on devs you can do this.


so yes...something like that...of course much more specific. the rarer, the more time invested = the better (time invested comes from finding rare item and leveling skills up to high 90s-100 (which isn't exactly that difficult as is. i think it needs to take about 3x as much XP to hit 100 in ALL skills



edit: and even better would be soft caps on gear upgrades.



say it took 10 of item A to get +1 upgrade. then the next time you wanted to upgrade, it would cost 20 of those said items. Then the next time it would cost 40.

so you could get +3 upgrade for 70 of item A, or you could get +1 upgrade for 10 of item A. That is how a soft cap works. Armor upgrades would not decay. So in theory a piece of armor could be come legendary (take months and months)...and could make a single player able to take on a half dozen players in a battle. However, this piece of gear wouldn't be owned by any old homesteader, most likely...as it would be tough for a single player to obtain the resources needed to craft these upgrades to the armor. not to mention, it would be much harder to take down the player with the armor if he was in a tribe, because the rest of the players would protect him.

if someone was to lose the armor, they could always get it back by RETALIATING and then proceeding to LOOT the piece of armor back that they lost. in t his sense, t he armor will never decay or destroy over time ( just decay through being damaged, like normal) and also, you can never permanently lose that piece of gear unless the enemy deletes it. However, the gear would be so legendary, they wouldn't delete it they would keep it for themselves. so there would always be a chance to get your loots back

a system like this = INFINITE RISK REWARD.

this is really making me want to sit down and take hours and hours to make a very detalied system on how to add VALUE to items. and make their value essentially LIMITLESS

i think i may just do that. thanks Dubanka

[Dubanka]

Good stuff

The poinT of my soft pitch over the middle wass to illustrate how confined the games systems are (currently). In the other thread jordi states he wants balance...one part of that balance equation is the balance of 'stuff'.

Every single useable item should have a reason you could use it - we should be able to make an arguement where grass armor is the 'best' option for a given scenario...or cloth, leather,etc.

This isnt just a pvp thing, this is actually more of a crafting/economy thing. What is th point of having hhundreds of different crafting option if, at the end. Of the day, you only need a dozen, because those are the 'best'. If only bone armor is worthwhile, then guess what, youll only have people making and wearing bone armor.

There is no scenariio where that is good design.

[MrDDT]

Good stuff

The poinT of my soft pitch over the middle wass to illustrate how confined the games systems are (currently). In the other thread jordi states he wants balance...one part of that balance equation is the balance of 'stuff'.

Every single useable item should have a reason you could use it - we should be able to make an arguement where grass armor is the 'best' option for a given scenario...or cloth, leather,etc.

This isnt just a pvp thing, this is actually more of a crafting/economy thing. What is th point of having hhundreds of different crafting option if, at the end. Of the day, you only need a dozen, because those are the 'best'. If only bone armor is worthwhile, then guess what, youll only have people making and wearing bone armor.

There is no scenariio where that is good design.

Dub, I agree. I really hope this doesnt turn into a PVP vs carebear thing. But really this hits the nail on the head.

Right now everything someone crafts is really for no reason. Why should I wear any armor at all? 100% safe area when Im doing anything. I kill bears in 1 or 2 hits. I can run from anyone thats attacking me (because Im lighter). So there goes a need for armor or clothes other than looking cool.

Weapons. I have a preorder thats better than any other weapon Ive seen yet. I see no need to have any other weapon type as they all do about the same stuff. Knifes are a little better while having desync and lag issues I would say, but really no reason to use it other than that. (I normally use it in water as that's the main problem with using slower weapons). But Clubs vs Axes vs Shovels vs Knives offer no reason other than looks to choose one over another. This isnt even getting into the TYPES of axes. Why should I make AB axe over BC axe? If they are both master QL they do the same damage attack with the same speed. Its only looks that are different. Weapon type, and weapon choice have no effect on what type of armor someone is wearing. They do the same damage.

Tools, really the only choice in tools is "Am I going to grind with it" or "Am I going to use it for high QL making items". Which is good, but there are 4+ types of tools for each tool. I see no real reason other than if you have the mats or not to choose one over the other. There is no bonus for using say a screwdriver on bone armor vs using it with making another tool. Mostly though I think tools are doing pretty good, but could be better.

Wall types. 100% looks here because HP and other factors are not even in yet. Why even build a wall at all?

Food so far is fish diet only for me. But that's kinda to be expected because of the no cooking skill in the game. I just hope that once it is in the game they have more effects than simply how fast it fills up your hunger bar.


I think the end thought of all this is "Why" at the end of the day why would people want to do any of this? This is where IMO I think PVP and Stronger PVE mobs come into play. Right now no monster in game bothers me at all, it will take many hits even naked for a monster in game to kill me. Bears are the hardest hitting ones and they are a joke.

[Hanover]

I think the end thought of all this is "Why" at the end of the day why would people want to do any of this?

This...

GMing skills and hording resources kept me busy for a while(in hopes of the game getting some direction), but in the end I do nothing with either.

[Mactavendish]

The why for me is having something to play where I can make a mark on a persistent world. and relax while doing it.

I have been the alpha male type, own everything, control everything and be known far and wide by my rep in most games I have played. I am very bored of that.

Here I can relax, enjoy building up a good tribe, create a interesting town with others that like doing the same thing and see if I can play differently here and have different goals than just dominate and control. What I am working on here takes much more thought and planning.

Plus, I have a lot of patience. I can easily wait till things are put in that will draw players here. I'm NOT really worried. If this folds it is only a game after all and I'll find another. But the true reason I'm not worried is from what I have seen this game will eventually pull it off... may take a while, but by then I will have any skill I need to play in the way I like.

Besides, I have been adding new members to my tribe weekly since I started it after leaving Regulators. Either the game is still enjoyed by many and I'm doing something right, or I'm delusional.

Yes... sigh... I know which you think it is.

[MrDDT]

The why for me is having something to play where I can make a mark on a persistent world. and relax while doing it.

I have been the alpha male type, own everything, control everything and be known far and wide by my rep in most games I have played. I am very bored of that.

Here I can relax, enjoy building up a good tribe, create a interesting town with others that like doing the same thing and see if I can play differently here and have different goals than just dominate and control. What I am working on here takes much more thought and planning.

Plus, I have a lot of patience. I can easily wait till things are put in that will draw players here. I'm NOT really worried. If this folds it is only a game after all and I'll find another. But the true reason I'm not worried is from what I have seen this game will eventually pull it off... may take a while, but by then I will have any skill I need to play in the way I like.

Besides, I have been adding new members to my tribe weekly since I started it after leaving Regulators. Either the game is still enjoyed by many and I'm doing something right, or I'm delusional.

Yes... sigh... I know which you think it is.

No offense but "many" is not a term I would using who is playing this game. Let alone saying its enjoyed by many.

Im with you in the fact that the game can pull it off. Right now I think its not pulling it off. Its getting there slowly, time will tell and I'm here for more than one reason.

Mac maybe you can be one where you are happy playing the life of Sim world with the other 3 to 10 people playing with you. Most (and many) are not like that. They need more. The "WHY" is very important. Right now the only reason "WHY" is because "I can". That wears off fast for most/many people.

I would love to know what other games you have played where you have owned everything and controlled everything etc.

[Mactavendish]

why? so we can compare epeens?

You have to admit that most player have shown themselves very impatient. You probably feel this is a proper response to the current state of affairs, but as Xsyon said this is an evolving and changing game where things are where he expected them to be at this stage. Your problem is they are not where YOU want them to be.

You are actually right that many need more, where you don't seem to get it is that with the exception of a very few on these forums, your vision for the game is not as accepted as you have convinced yourself it is. The players have the ability to chose what they like and dislike, and sure don't need you to dictate what they should have or get, any more than they should bend to my perspective.

To me all these threads are a self-correcting errors. Those that don't get what they want will leave to be replaced by those that like what they get, and NOBODY will care or remember all this posturing.

Also since it is real people that play here, real people feelings, desires, wants and needs come into play. You are convinced that "most" agree with you. The 22 members of my tribe do not. They actually enjoy crafting just to do it. Do they want more? Of course! I do too, we are just patiently playing and building and trying things out till it is here.

The threads on the forum lately only serve to demonstrate that players today are a product of the other games they have played and if anything have become more demanding that it all be the way THEY want, not the way it is.

If you like checkers you will play it .. alot.. and often.. others will feel you are crazy and that checkers is the most boring thing in the world... but YOU won't because you love checkers.

Maybe you want others to agree with you because you feel you are so smart and have it all figured out... other posters have pointed out alternatives to your view point and you never listen to them ... Maybe they just like checkers .. online checkers... with shovels and fishing... and terraforming

[MrDDT]

To me all these threads are a self-correcting errors. Those that don't get what they want will leave to be replaced by those that like what they get, and NOBODY will care or remember all this posturing.

According to this statement then the devs could do no wrong, and any choice they make will correct themselves. Which I cant agree with.

If they say make the game that is 100% white screen that blinds you and has painful sound coming out of it. It would be horrid for the game and the game would fail as would the support.

The vision the devs have of the game is theirs, but they also dont know all, and they have sometimes less exp in some areas than players. So players giving feedback (and opinions) sometimes is what they need and want.

Like the combat system. They know they wanted a new combat system, but they didnt know how to do it. People told them about M&B and now they are asking for more feedback on how it should work. I think this is one of the best things about this dev team. They listen to the players. Its truly a sandbox like that.


I want to know what games you have played to understand better what you feel is controlling everything in those games. Playing WOW and having a level 80 is a far cry from playing Darkfall and having everything.

[Dubanka]

why? so we can compare epeens?

You have to admit that most player have shown themselves very impatient. You probably feel this is a proper response to the current state of affairs, but as Xsyon said this is an evolving and changing game where things are where he expected them to be at this stage. Your problem is they are not where YOU want them to be.

You are actually right that many need more, where you don't seem to get it is that with the exception of a very few on these forums, your vision for the game is not as accepted as you have convinced yourself it is. The players have the ability to chose what they like and dislike, and sure don't need you to dictate what they should have or get, any more than they should bend to my perspective.

To me all these threads are a self-correcting errors. Those that don't get what they want will leave to be replaced by those that like what they get, and NOBODY will care or remember all this posturing.

Also since it is real people that play here, real people feelings, desires, wants and needs come into play. You are convinced that "most" agree with you. The 22 members of my tribe do not. They actually enjoy crafting just to do it. Do they want more? Of course! I do too, we are just patiently playing and building and trying things out till it is here.

The threads on the forum lately only serve to demonstrate that players today are a product of the other games they have played and if anything have become more demanding that it all be the way THEY want, not the way it is.

If you like checkers you will play it .. alot.. and often.. others will feel you are crazy and that checkers is the most boring thing in the world... but YOU won't because you love checkers.

Maybe you want others to agree with you because you feel you are so smart and have it all figured out... other posters have pointed out alternatives to your view point and you never listen to them ... Maybe they just like checkers .. online checkers... with shovels and fishing... and terraforming

Patience. Players are very impatient when they are paying for a product. You pay money, you expect a service to be delivered to a certain level. When it isn't a) first you get upset and try to get the service delivered that was promised and b) when it isn't you simply elect to spend your money elsewhere. If we didn't pay for something you'd have a valid point....but we did, so you don't.

The threads on the forum lately only serve to demonstrate that players today are a product of the other games they have played and if anything have become more demanding that it all be the way THEY want, not the way it is.
Again this is 100% wrong. In the other thread in the Barracks forum, we are asking...begging even... PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOUR INTENT IS. The core problem with this development is the vagueness...we have enough information to see what we want to in the game, but everybody sees something different. We just need to be told what the deal is, what the intent is, so we can get on to helping it work, or get on to getting the f!@# out.