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  1. #21
    radius is the amount of territory your can directly control/build on
    influence is your ability to encroach into other territory / the level of claimed 'area of influence' that your tribe has

  2. #22
    So Im guessing radius will always be less than influence but sometimes influence might = radius?

    Ya I like that system, I think its harder to put into place due to the changing growth. But its a better system (more like a change to the system I listed).
    Im guessing you would still keep the ghost totem being built with resources and not needing a set number of people in the tribe with this system?

  3. #23
    in dubanka's world, i would eliminate the player reqt for totem and make it a resource requirement.

    you can keep the type of totems...just each type has a large natural radius and has more room to plant.

    in a change from the current form, you would be able to upgrade to the next type of totem, with the correct amount of resources, providing you did not have encroachment issues (insert influence and seige warfare discussions).

    but to step back to the now.

    simply change tribal member requirements to a resource requirement.
    there already exists radius expansion code...it's just currently tied to players...make it a manual upgrade based on resource consumption.
    incorporate a weekly maintenance fee that tiers up based on the type of totem and the level to which it has been upgraded.

    Example.
    Base totem creation requirements -
    Homestead: 20 limestone
    Clan: 20 granite, 20 branches
    Tribe: 20 limestone, 20 granite, 20 branches, 1 large log

    Base totem maintenance fees
    Homestead: 10 branches, 10 limestone, 5 sand
    Clan: 10 small logs, 20 granite, 10 sand
    Tribe: 10 large logs, 20 granite, 20 limestone, 20 sand, 10 Grass Tarps (eh how about that...a use for the grass tarp!)

    Upgrade 1 level of radius
    Homestead: 1 flint, 10 long wooden poles, 50 metal stakes
    Clan: 1 quartz, 50 bone stakes, 10 large metal sheets
    Tribe: 1 obsidian, 50 steel wedges, 20 cloth tarps, 50 long wooden poles

    jsut examples...obviously trying to integrate some crafting elements into the totem piece...

  4. #24
    Sounds good.

    Not sure what people think about the resources, or if using a unit system would be better. IE Obsidian would be worth like 1000 units while stone would be worth one, logs might be worth like 20.

  5. #25
    The reason i like resources is that it forces people to interact...esp if jordi codes regional resources and say it takes rare resources from each sector of the world to upgrade your totem at higher levels...

  6. #26
    Xsyon Citizen
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    I always wondered - what I should do with the tons (and I mean about 30 hours playtime - to get to basketry lvl 94) of grass-string.
    Paying for upkeeping the totem is a very good idea!
    If possible - a "resizing" feature would be nice. So the size of the protected region depends on the amount of regular payments - a very active group could control more land than a large but inactive tribe.

    And finding a suitable and useful purpose for the crafting-grind-produce would also be great

  7. #27
    Thanks for the response. Here's my feedback:


    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    The resources doesnt have to be great, it can be balanced. Plus the resources allow so many other options.

    Few problems I see with this system is.

    1) Still has the issues with everyone has to be on to make the correct size tribe, it cant grow based on planned amount of people.
    The requirement for all members to be on to actually create the tribe is probably its own separate topic, but I think a way to deal with it is to have the tribe leader set the size and create the totem without others having to be on. Then all tribe members have one week to log on and "activate" their name at the totem. If the number of activated players is less than what the totem is set for, then the radius jumps down to the appropriate size interval.
    2) Promotes zergs still.
    Yea we still need to brainstorm on this topic..., but I think this is also its own topic and maybe totem mechanics does still tie into it.
    3) What if few of your members go away on holiday. Nothing those other members could do but get their account names and info to protect the area.
    Maybe change the conditions for when the radius shrinks to be 5 tribe members flagged "inactive", and also maybe the time interval to be flagged inactive to 3 weeks (maybe 4??) This would give the tribe a nice buffer. In order for the radius to shrink, 5 members would have to be inactive for at least 3 weeks. If 10 were flagged inactive, it would shrink by 2 intervals, 15 inactives= 3 intervals, and so on....
    4) How would this challenge be done? Once a day? Week? hour? Person? Tribe? Randomly?
    Now that I'm thinking more about it, maybe being flagged "inactive" should not be based on tribes challenging each other, but last log in instead. Each account would be sent an automated email warning them of their inactive status.
    So after 3 weeks of no loggin in, you get flagged "inactive" and every 5 inactives will shrink a tribe radius by some interval.
    Solo homestead totems would disappear after say 4 weeks of not logging in to give solo players a bit more of a buffer since it only depends on one person.

    5) How could the tribe grow back if these members did come back?
    If the inactive tribe suddenly had a surge of returning active players? They would have to find other real estate, only if the neighboring active tribe grew into their radius. If the land was still available, then the radius just grows to the next interval based on the number of "active" flagged players.
    Those are just a few problems I see off the top of my head.
    I'm not totally opposed to the "upkeep" idea. I just think we already have a gathering time sink for crafting and building the actual tribe structures. Adding another for the totem just seems redundant to me.

    Like you said, we could make it an insignificant amount of upkeep. The only counter point to that is: why have it if it would be easy for a few players to gather the upkeep requirements and maintain a large claim of land?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    So Im guessing radius will always be less than influence but sometimes influence might = radius?

    Ya I like that system, I think its harder to put into place due to the changing growth. But its a better system (more like a change to the system I listed).
    Im guessing you would still keep the ghost totem being built with resources and not needing a set number of people in the tribe with this system?
    I also like the idea of "tribe radius" being one mechanic and then the "influence radius" being controlled by a separate mechanic which will always be >= the "tribe radius. This might be a good replacement for the expansion totem idea. Influence would be very dynamic and could add a lot of depth to the game. Many different factors could affect its size similar to the Civ series. Good ideas guys. Keep em coming!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek View Post
    Thanks for the response. Here's my feedback:




    I'm not totally opposed to the "upkeep" idea. I just think we already have a gathering time sink for crafting and building the actual tribe structures. Adding another for the totem just seems redundant to me.

    Like you said, we could make it an insignificant amount of upkeep. The only counter point to that is: why have it if it would be easy for a few players to gather the upkeep requirements and maintain a large claim of land?
    The point is to balance it.
    Also not to make it so its zerg numbers = more control. Control should be done with either force, or activity. A way to show activity is to use resources. If you dont want a large resource cost, then choose a smaller totem.

    Also using your statements whats "Active" I would hate to see people have to get someone elses account details just to keep them active because they went away for 2 weeks. Using resources allows small groups to control more if they wish to put that type of effort into it.

  9. #29
    I see your point about have the radius be based off of upkeep instead of # of players. Your saying that this would allow smaller tribes can, if they wish, to work harder by gathering extra resources to grow their radius to something similar in size to the larger "zerg" tribes.

    So how does this sound:

    (1) The basic "tribe radius" would be based off of player numbers and also being flagged "active/inactive" based on the mechanic I've previously described (3 week log in interval/5 players inactive=step down in tribe radius size)

    (2) The "influence radius" could be based off factors not directly tied to number of players in the tribe. These factors could include:
    (a) Gathering resources for upkeep.
    (b) Military force, i.e. # of kills vs. neighboring warring tribes
    (c) Trade achievements/Cultural achievements
    (d) Erection of some type of epic monuments in your tribal area.

    Splitting it into two separate mechanics would give a nice stable and pre-defined base size for all tribes based off numbers. The "influence radius" would be a way to reward hard work and smart thinking by expanding the influence radius based of the factors mentioned above + whatever else we think of.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek View Post
    I see your point about have the radius be based off of upkeep instead of # of players. Your saying that this would allow smaller tribes can, if they wish, to work harder by gathering extra resources to grow their radius to something similar in size to the larger "zerg" tribes.

    So how does this sound:

    (1) The basic "tribe radius" would be based off of player numbers and also being flagged "active/inactive" based on the mechanic I've previously described (3 week log in interval/5 players inactive=step down in tribe radius size)

    (2) The "influence radius" could be based off factors not directly tied to number of players in the tribe. These factors could include:
    (a) Gathering resources for upkeep.
    (b) Military force, i.e. # of kills vs. neighboring warring tribes
    (c) Trade achievements/Cultural achievements
    (d) Erection of some type of epic monuments in your tribal area.

    Splitting it into two separate mechanics would give a nice stable and pre-defined base size for all tribes based off numbers. The "influence radius" would be a way to reward hard work and smart thinking by expanding the influence radius based of the factors mentioned above + whatever else we think of.
    i could live with that, as long as with #1, you could upgrade your totem to the next level via resources...I just hate tying things to numbers...it's one thing to put it down initially based off your group, but it would be nice to be able to work out of that.

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