How about Effort vs. Reward?

[Bizley]

If this game succeeds, I'll be very interested to discover whether money becomes valuable. Personally, I won't be accepting money at all, and neither will a good many others I'm betting. 1. Because money has no intrinsic value other than being an accepted norm, and 2. Because money changes a colorful world into black and white, everything being a different shade of the same generic quantity, and nothing is valued any longer for its actual function but rather its ranking in the currency.

[Dubanka]

Some people bought the game, convinced all their friends to buy the game, and then realized there's nothing in its current inception that they like. That's unfortunate. The original design is being changed to include sieges and various other things to accommodate those folks. If it were to happen overnight, you might like it, but it probably wouldn't have much of an intellectual challenge to it and we'd wind up with pewpew my macro good! yarr! Would be an unfortunate step backwards imho. No no, wait, I actually am entitled to mho.

Now, I suppose, one answer might be to pounce on people like Mac at every opportunity in the hopes they'll cower away and never post again. Someone pointed out there's actually people who post with the intent of "manipulating" the dev team. Odd concept frankly but I suppose that would be easier if different points of view were chased off the forums with great remarks like "you suck, you fail, stfu" etc.

Perhaps he really IS saying that pvp people are the problem. I don't really see that as being the case and didn't think Mac did either honestly... but how is that any different from the other people running around saying carebears are the problem at every mind-numbing, boring opportunity? Aside from the fact that one is your personal opinion, and the other might be his personal opinion.

/shrug. I hope the game changes to whatever people need so they can save face to all their little friends and we can move on to more interesting, intellectually stimulating subjects.

Care to dance?

As i've said many times, there is actually quite a lot about the game to like (otherwise I wouldn't still be here)...it just lacks cohesion, and a 'point' to make it actually a game (currently it's more a sim). [Insert it's the players, not the games fault argument here]. The rest of that paragraph is pretty much nonsensical...no one here is promoting macros, nothing will happen overnight, and we're not entitled to anything (other than a functionally complete product...that debate has been had ad nauseum).

I typically try to be constructive in my posts. Mac's style is more to call everyone who doesn't like the status quo whiners, etc. If you're going to 'call me out' for my posts, well i guess i should just turn the other cheek....and no, mac doesn't have a point of view besides 'everyone who doesnt like it should stfu and quit whining, the devs know what they're doing'...that is not constructive, and doesn't even make for an interesting discussion.

I don't really hear people saying 'carebears are the proplem'. I think all the pvp proponents understand that the world needs to exist with some semblance of balance for both sides. All the pvp types propose solutions to issues that try to balance the combatants with the nons. In resposne, we typically get the 'why should i have to pvp to get x, i should just get it' argument. So while ii don't think carebears are the problem, there is a very vocal contingent on that side of the fence that wants a solution that has nothing to do with balance, and everything to do with getting everything they want. Does that make them a problem? *Shrug* up for the devs to decide.

This is all just discussion until solutions are implemented, or until xsyon states that they wont be. At which time everyone can vote with their wallet.

Until that point is reached, I am very against anyone that comes on the forums and tells us just to eat our shit sandwich and like it...mainly those posts confuse me...why is discussion a bad thing?

[Mactavendish]

You know you guys never seem to be able to remember when I agree with you.

I do not think pvp'rs are the problem, I fully understood that open full loot pvp was a part of this game.. and still I joined and started player... imagine that.

I have said from my very first posts that there was too many resources, that we should have needs drive player interactions, and that things like the scroll bars, growing trees and working defense structures need to be finished and done.

I think there are a very few I would characterize as whiners.

I don't want the status quo anymore than you, but as I have said, I think this game is not finished enough yet, to be complaining about things that may or may not even take place. Discussions are fine, but I do believe it's you and ddt that have been abusive in your reactions to other posters not me. When you feel you are not being listened to, you 2 will stoop to name calling and try to spin a posters comments into what you want to hear not listen to what they say.

I don't have to like your opinion nor do i have to appreciate anything you say IF what you say is something I disagree with. I don't need your permission to say that .. its fact.

If either of you truly believe my comments can run off players, does that not also apply to you as well when you shout as loud as you can how bad the game is? All I am doing it trying to counter you both by saying that for many that actually play this game we still have enjoyment and can be occupied until things are more filled out.

This will be the last time I directly respond to either you or ddt. Mostly because it help feed your need to rant, and partly because I have no interest anymore in what you are saying.

Bait all you like.. I'm putting you both on ignore. ( what is funny is you will most likely feel you have "won" )

[Book]

Care to dance?

great, I'm gonna need years of therapy to get that disturbing mental imagine out of my head... thanks a lot

we typically get the 'why should i have to pvp to get x, i should just get it' argument. So while ii don't think carebears are the problem, there is a very vocal contingent on that side of the fence that wants a solution that has nothing to do with balance, and everything to do with getting everything they want.

I think this is a miscommunication / misunderstanding... unless it isn't and it's just not considered valid... dunno.

It's not so much "should just get it." I mean, I don't think anyone would find it fun for things to magically appear in a basket whenever they want it.

The notion is to have accessibility in a way other than pvp. Maybe it's fighting difficult zombies, maybe it's taming a large mama bear to battle the pvper (or just to help out a little), maybe it's the shaman's special cayenne pepper blinding dust... any number of possibilities. Could very well be trade as well of course, but that does necessitate access to something worth trading without necessarily having to pvp for it.

Balance is good, but it doesn't necessarily have to mean forced pvp for it to be balanced. I *think* that's what some are saying... at least, that's how I see it and how I understand what they're saying. Maybe that's how you understood it as well and just don't think it's balanced that way... not quite sure.

[MrDDT]

You know you guys never seem to be able to remember when I agree with you.

I do not think pvp'rs are the problem, I fully understood that open full loot pvp was a part of this game.. and still I joined and started player... imagine that.

I have said from my very first posts that there was too many resources, that we should have needs drive player interactions, and that things like the scroll bars, growing trees and working defense structures need to be finished and done.

I think there are a very few I would characterize as whiners.

I don't want the status quo anymore than you, but as I have said, I think this game is not finished enough yet, to be complaining about things that may or may not even take place. Discussions are fine, but I do believe it's you and ddt that have been abusive in your reactions to other posters not me. When you feel you are not being listened to, you 2 will stoop to name calling and try to spin a posters comments into what you want to hear not listen to what they say.

I don't have to like your opinion nor do i have to appreciate anything you say IF what you say is something I disagree with. I don't need your permission to say that .. its fact.

If either of you truly believe my comments can run off players, does that not also apply to you as well when you shout as loud as you can how bad the game is? All I am doing it trying to counter you both by saying that for many that actually play this game we still have enjoyment and can be occupied until things are more filled out.

This will be the last time I directly respond to either you or ddt. Mostly because it help feed your need to rant, and partly because I have no interest anymore in what you are saying.

Bait all you like.. I'm putting you both on ignore. ( what is funny is you will most likely feel you have "won" )

I love how people cant debate the points of a topic so they direct to personal attacks.

You havnt even answered my first question of where is the reward for terraforming and architecture?

After you combat the points maybe you might have the right to talk about how you might not like someone or something. Now granted you likely wont comment to this because you are ignoring me, but you will most likely think you won because you called out someone names and now you put your fingers in your ears.

Good luck with that. I'm sure it serves you well in life.

[NorCalGooey]

This will be the last time I directly respond to either you or ddt.

Good. The sooner the better. The more you do the worse you look.

Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant than open it up and remove all doubt.

[Shrimps]

Might as well lock this thread, it's not going anywhere good from here, the trolls crashed the party.

I kind've miss B.A.C., at least they made trolling look classy.

[Dubanka]