AR leader explaining why he and most quit Xsyon

[NorCalGooey]

Just thought I would share this message with you guys. I found it very relevant to what people are talking about lately on the forums. One simple thing, broken promises and changes to the original plan.

Long time Xsyon beta player and 3 year guild leader of Audacian Republic, KINSLAYER, explaining to me why he and most of the long time AR members quit Xsyon (we currently don't play any game completely actively as a tribe, but still have our forums setup..I guess we are all just waiting for that next big game, or Xsyon to patch something interesting...but the problem is they have SO MUCH to patch.)

As my personal commentary, this couldn't be anymore accurate. So I am going to make it size 3.

FOREWARNING:, if you like Xsyon and want to keep playing it, you might not want to read this...as I almost want to quit now.


Post on our forum from Kinslayer responding to me
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I love world building content if its done right. I just think Xsyon has missed the mark slightly. It doesnt need huge improvements, but it does need a lot of refinement.

But as you say, player interaction is where the game breaks down, not just in PvP, but also in things like recipes and resources. We were always told, back in beta, that recipes will be unique to individuals, that no one tribe will be able to be self sufficient, much less a single person. Unfortunately the game hasnt turned out like that.

As I've said many times in the past couple of months, I can no longer promote a game Im not excited about personally. If Xsyon can make some simple improvements and refinements, hopefully my excitement for the game will return, and Im not just talking combat. It goes deeper than that.

But to answer your question about whats different now, well, not much, and thats the problem. Also, some simple things we were told during beta have gone in the opposite direction, like the lack of unique recipes among different players. I have toolcrafting at level 20 or so I think it is, and I can make any tool I need. So not only am I self sufficient for tools, so is the tribe Im in. If I spent the time to train another 6 skills to 30 or 50, in some cases 80, I could be self sufficient in all skills. Thats far from a good thing. We were told 8-12mths ago that it wouldnt be like that.

Also, as I said before, we were told Prelude would only last for 6-12mths, and during that time we would see heaps of cool stuff like agriculture and religion implemented, not to mention more lore. Nothing there yet. We were originally told also that safe zones will only last for 6-9mths during Prelude before they would be removed. Then in comes a wave of carebears, and we are apparently stuck with them, again, not a good thing. We proved in the first 3 weeks of release that safe zones are a bad idea and will be exploited.

So now I believe they are implementing a new zone with true open PvP and rare resources? How, as a tribe, are we to benefit from that without abandoning our totem? Are expansion totems being introduced along with that? If not, by the time they are implemented, it will be too late. Once again, this is a thing that hasnt been thought through properly by the devs, and that remains one of the biggest problems with the development of Xsyon, the lack of thinking things through sufficiently before either diving into something, or announcing something on the forum.

These may all seem petty or minor things, but when all lumped together on top of one another, it becomes a lot of disappointment. Hell, feel free to copy and paste this stuff to the Xsyon forum if you want, perhaps Jooky should read this kind of feedback.

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IMO, this is basically a summary of all the back and forth on the multiple threads where people argue about the most important issues.

[Rudder]

Can I have your stuff?

[NorCalGooey]

You serious? That's what you bring to the thread? I don't have a great deal of personal items and I'm not going to give away all of the tribes items. There's always the possiblity for a miracle. I'm not quitting anyways. I said I almost want to quit (i meant this moment). I'm giving it until the end of August.

[Aiden]

I have 10-15 friends that are looking for a game to make their new home as a tribe. I play completely solo right now because I tell them on a daily basis that this game is a long, long, long way from being finished...and the post by Kinslayer highlights one of the major reasons I believe that...

There are TONS of little things that could have been done slightly different which would have caused this game to be a THRIVING community-interaction based world...instead of a population: 10 wasteland where everyone (I AM A HOMESTEADER AND CAN MAKE EVERYTHING I NEED) is self-sufficient...how "realistic" is that?

[NorCalGooey]

It's truly sad isn't it Aiden. Even in 2011 in real life, we aren't self sufficient. We are very reliant on society (most people anyways) and trade. You would think with exponentially less resources in the world people would have to trade even more (no overabundance worldwide, perhaps have even a shortage of most resources in one specific area, but an overabundance of a few resources)..and they would. Problem is Xsyon isn't like that at ALL like you pointed out.

Hell, even in 2011 we still trade for REGIONAL resources. Some stuff just grows better in certain areas of the world, and some stuff can ONLY grow in certain areas of the world. Or some things can only be naturally found in certain areas of the world.

THRIVING community-interaction based world... has a nice ring to it.

Added after 5 minutes:

It's also sad how the devs can't see that safe zones that are instant and free to make, anytime (within a 6 hour window, dropping the totem), anywhere in the world, can't work. There is too much exploitation...not to mention...boring....

The reason I am still playing the game is because in the end I KNOW as FACT that carebear ideas will be tossed out or game dies (one of two options). This game CANNOT survive any other way. It was not designed to be a theme park crafting simulator. The DEVS know it too, they are just waiting to implement other major features and polish the game BEFORE they bring back a massive wave of players via safe zone removal AND advertising. They only get ONE chance at that and they know that as well. It's just sad that it SEEMS it's going to take a while before the game is in a state where they can remove safe zones, advertise, and populate the game.

edit: of course if Jordi is a millionaire and doesn't need the money, the game can survive anyway he chooses. I didn't mean the game wouldn't survive budget wise though (although it wouldn't unless he's rich), I meant population and reputation wise.

[Book]

I can't say I agree, nor can I say I disagree, with everything he's saying.

However, if I were to play devil's advocate for a minute, I might mention some of the following:

1) Kinslayer was heard and listened to when it came to staggered downtimes. So there is some direct and tangible evidence that he isn't ignored or unheard in his needs / wants. A sensible and feasible compromise was implemented by the devs. Perhaps they're still devising similar, workable compromises on some of the other issues.

2) If prelude is to be 6 to 12 months, then we're looking at September 15, 2011, to March 15, 2012. Perhaps his past year of experience leads him to believe things like agriculture or religion won't actually be added in that time. Difficult to speak to that because I don't have that year of experience with this company, nor does the company have the same set of employees minus a few. I believe most developers are fairly recent, which is one reason Xsyon has given for needing to catch up on things. Still, the understood prelude, at it's longest, is nowhere near over. One shall see.

3) Far as the safe zones, I may have your position confused with someone else's... apologies if that's the case. I thought you felt capital totems should not be destructible because people put so much time into them? If so, that's not far from what those you would consider carebears have come to agree with. Myself as an example, I used to believe safe zones would be adequate, but understand a number aren't all that happy with them. So, a capital totem like the one I think you've mentioned and a gate to keep me safe from too much babysitting duty would work. I know of other so-called carebears that have said the very same thing.

4) I don't think I remember Jordi himself ever saying he was planning different pvp rules for different zones? Might have missed it. I know that's something players have talked about, and in an environment where players are listened to a lot... it does make one wonder if what is said on forums will eventually become the reality. My thought on that is we will see viable attempts at compromise from the devs... where feasible and workable. Some on the extreme carebear thoughts of things won't be happy with it. Some on the extreme side of whatever you want to call the opposite of a carebear won't be happy with it... but hopefully a healthy number of middle-roaders will be having a great old time and inviting all of their friends.

/ end devil's advocate.

I made 100 baskets today. I learned something new to me about gathering grass and being able to consistently get "high quality" grass. I got my basketry skill up to 50 which means when I get back home after this trade I'll be able to make better grass armor, or maybe even better skirts . I'm going through the grind I have to to raise my skill, but I have a trade with MrDDT that means I'm very happy with what I will get for that grind rather than just grinding for the sake of it.

Taking a break helped me get back into the game a bit. Hopefully that will be the case for many more others as well.

[Aiden]

Yeah NorCal...my wife and I talked about this some when we were considering getting two accounts...

I can start with basketry and as long as I don't mind grinding a lot, I can make ANYTHING....all by myself. It may not be quite as high quality as the person next to me, but really...that's not going to matter much.

If I can craft what I need, why in the world would I travel halfway across the map to get something with +1....

Recipes need to be limited...resources need to be regional...and there needs to be a significant skill-cap in place. Xsyon will NEVER feel like a world if a tribe (or homesteader) never NEEDS or WANTS for anything outside of their four walls...

[Saorlan]

You serious? That's what you bring to the thread? I don't have a great deal of personal items and I'm not going to give away all of the tribes items. There's always the possiblity for a miracle. I'm not quitting anyways. I said I almost want to quit (i meant this moment). I'm giving it until the end of August.

You my friend need to get a sense of humor. Seriously go to WOW already.

[NorCalGooey]

You my friend need to get a sense of humor. Seriously go to WOW already.

Has nothing to do with sense of humor. Whatever, I saw ZERO reason for a post like that when this is a completely serious thread.

Posting like "Can I has your stuffz?? Idc what the thread says just gimme STUFFZ!"

I absolutely HATE when people like you come in and act like they know anything about someone they of course don't even know. Even if that was PURELY a joke, it wasn't even CLOSE to funny. If it was serious, he's missing the point of the thread. Sorry that I would rather have more focused discussion.

Also, your post and this one have nothing to do with the OP. So let's get back on topic

[Saorlan]

I absolutely HATE when people like you come in and act like they know anything about someone they of course don't even know. Even if that was PURELY a joke, it wasn't even CLOSE to funny. If it was serious, he's missing the point of the thread.

Yes you hate it because you have zero sense of humor and take things like this game far to seriously. I suggest you go back to WOW whilst myself and the others that take this thread for what it is - a joke take all your stuff.

How many posts do we have to read with people explaining why they left an MMO. You know what? We could care less. You think the developer is actually going to read the reasons? So we all we are left with saying is "Can I have your stuff" and "go back to WOW" because those statements are about as equally pointless as the reason why Mr Kingslayer has left this game.