Rants and raves

[MrDDT]

Here you imply we don't PvP.

Here you again try to downplay our tribe and say we don't PvP.

And again trying to downplay that what we are doing isn't good enough to be considered "real" PvP.

With multiple attacks against our tribe, yes I say that focusing on what you are saying is rather important. Not to mention your complete avoidance of other issues that were brought up.

I never disagreed that we could claim to be a PvP tribe without PvPing, the disagreement was about what was considered PvP. Now that you have admitted that we do in fact PvP to the best of your knowledge, unlike before when you spoke out of turn, please edit your posts to remove the fictitious statements.

I dont know if you do or dont. I'm still of the opinion you don't just FYI.
Because you claim you do duels doesnt make me think you PVP.
Because fatboy, who has lied many times says you might PVP doesnt mean much to me either.

Liquid, says you guys come to his place and "we do however fight each-other to train or see where we are at with our skills", doesnt mean you make the standards of calling yourself a PVP tribe.

I agree that dueling is PVP, but again there is more to being a "PVP Tribe" than randomly hitting another player once in your lifetime of playing.

So yet again, I will still stand by the fact that you are NOT a PVP tribe unless you are doing the other things that make a tribe a PVP tribe.
So this is the point where its not just "English" standards now that you understand what PVP is, but also by what is called "Commonly Understood" meaning when you say something, its commonly understood as to what that meaning holds.

Glad we can move to the next point once you understand what PVP means, and you agree that you cant be a PVP tribe without PVPing.

Sorry - could not let this one pass. So in the ever churning, turning brain of DDT, the reason to do or not do something is beside the point. In other words - just do something! Don't try and decide or reason why you may or may not do something. JUST DO SOMETHING!

Now ponder that statement for just a moment.

Forget eating because your hungry - by gawd just eat and eat and eat! Or Kill kill kill! Do it, because the reason why you do or don't do something is totally irrevelant in the world that DDT lives in. You know what is scary? I think he means it. (shudder)

I didnt say understanding the reasons behind something doesnt mean anything, I love the reasons behind something. It helps make other things clear in understanding when someone or a group of people will do something, because you know the why. However, when dealing with facts, reasons are not really a major part of that, only the facts and actions.

You could list a ton of reasons why you do or dont do things, doesnt mean any of them are true.

Saying you are eating is a fact (assuming its true), because you are hungry, or just felt like eating is another thing altogether.
If you were to say "we never eat" and I disagree with that, you dont need to list that you dont get hungry, because if you DO eat, but you dont get hungry doesnt change the fact that you do eat. I'm not sure if this is making it clear to you or not, but once you understand that I dont need to know why you are doing something to know you are not doing it. Just that you are not doing it, thus you shouldnt claim you are.


The point of calling you a PVP tribe now after being shown that you do duels, training, and might have hit another person by mistake is really more now of a topic of opinion of what a PVP tribe is, and I doubt this can go much further, as I believe you will not agree with my opinion no matter what other data I bring.

[krimara]

Hey more power to you if you guys are PVPing (Training with another tribe yeah that must feel good for PVP huh?).

I guess its PVP even when its training haha (If you go by the book). Good job you proven you are a PVP tribe, keep on training while other PVP tribes are doing what they call PVP.

Still doesn't disprove my point that calling yourself something doesn't make it true. Which you nor China seem to understand.

Try to downplay all you like now, you have said it. With the current state of the game yes I say that training and practicing for when it's worth partaking in larger more grand battles is good enough for now.

You have brought no "data" or "truth" to this other than your own opinion which, yes I do disagree with, I don't understand why you can't admit you did indeed speak out of turn and apologize for it.

[MrDDT]

Try to downplay all you like now, you have said it. With the current state of the game yes I say that training and practicing for when it's worth partaking in larger more grand battles is good enough for now.

You have brought no "data" or "truth" to this other than your own opinion which, yes I do disagree with, I don't understand why you can't admit you did indeed speak out of turn and apologize for it.

Sorry did I miss the /sarcasm tag there? I thought you understood that's what I was meaning.

Are you again disputing the fact that if you don't PVP, you cant be a PVP tribe?


Another thing about the topic.

Lets say our tribe does a few good deeds, but my tribe does millions of evil deeds. Would it be truth to claim to be a good tribe?

[krimara]

That depends if you are once again saying that a player fighting another player isn't considered player vs. player.

[MrDDT]

That depends if you are once again saying that a player fighting another player isn't considered player vs. player.

I was just stating it, because you said I brought no facts or data to show this, its just one of the many, which you can read if you read the thread.

I do bring opinions which I also stated a couple posts up. Notice how you use facts and data, then you make opinions? Its really crazy how the human mind works.

[krimara]

Just to clear this up then, by contrast no one has a PvP tribe. Because no one in this game can claim to have fought more people than they have crafted items.

Just saying.

[MrDDT]

Just to clear this up then, by contrast no one has a PvP tribe. Because no one in this game can claim to have fought more people than they have crafted items.

Just saying.

Ive done a lot more PVP than Ive crafted items.
Not sure what you mean there.

But really its not about the amount of items, its about the amount of time spent IMO.

This is where opinion starts to come into play. If you spending 99.9% of your time crafting items, and .1% of them doing duels (Not saying you do), clearly wouldnt that be a crafter?
If you spent 99.9% of your time doing duels or better yet non training PVP (you know where you go out and kill other people that you are not friends with for something other than skills?) and .1% crafting items, clearly to me they would be a PVPer.

Get the understanding?
If you make a billion items with that .1% crafting time, it shouldnt matter. Because its more about the time spent.

But there is still even more to this puzzle than that, Im just pointing out the easy stuff. Stuff I would figure would be common sense.

[krimara]

On time based you might be able to swing it, but that would shoot your previous example down also. The good deeds may have taken months to do but the evil tasks may have been minor and take seconds. But this could be debated forever.

The condescending bit at the end is nice.

In the end it comes down to how some people no matter with what they know will speak out of line not knowing any better and assuming they are right. It's all about them doing it despite being told by someone who would know that they are indeed wrong.
How that person handles being told they are wrong shows a clear picture of their character and beliefs.

To sum it up for you DDT, I've killed players, I will continue to kill players, but it will be for the reason I deem worthy. Not you or anyone else, that to me makes me a PvP player.

[MrDDT]

On time based you might be able to swing it, but that would shoot your previous example down also. The good deeds may have taken months to do but the evil tasks may have been minor and take seconds. But this could be debated forever.

To sum it up for you DDT, I've killed players, I will continue to kill players, but it will be for the reason I deem worthy. Not you or anyone else, that to me makes me a PvP player.

You hit the nail on the head right there with the first line. I made an opinion about how you are not a PVP tribe because you dont PVP.

There is a lot more to it than just "We spent 6.7 hours PVPing, and 6.6 hours crafting, we are a PVP tribe"

Same goes for good deeds vs evil deeds. You have to look at the whole picture. Things like how bad were the deeds, and how good are the deeds? Helping someone across the road, then killing and raping their family isnt really making that a good person wouldnt you think?


Which brings me back to the "PVP tribe", while PVEing you hit your friend and kill him, does that make you a PVP tribe? Or how about you spend a lot of time sparing with your buddies, but every when attacked by other players, you run, or stay in your safezones. Does that make you a PVP tribe?

These are questions you have to ask yourself, and others will view you when they consider if you are a PVP tribe. I'm not sure how badly you are or are not a PVP tribe, but I do know just in this topic based on what was said about your tribe. Things like "They come over and we train on each other" "Go to their lands then see" shows me you are likely not a PVP tribe, and which is why I still stand behind my first opinion of you are not a PVP tribe.

My statement after was just because you claim to be one doesnt make it so. Still stands.

If I were to hear statements like "Yes, they attacked and killed me" or "I was defending so and so when they attacked" would make me think more of how you are a PVP tribe.
This doesnt have to be bad things you have done, someone could have hired you to attack another tribe. Your tribe does plan to be hired to do such things correct? Or maybe attack players while they are on the road? Or maybe claim bounties?

Dont confuse "ganking" or "griefing" (some things I believe I have done), with PVP or being a PVP tribe. Sometimes they do not go hand an hand. Ive known many "ANTI PK" clans in UO, and Shadowbane that didnt attack good players, or grief people. But they sure as heck brought the fight down on people that were evil, or griefing people.

All in all, you are trying to blame the game for your failures for being a PVP tribe. I agree the game has a long way to go, but stating facts that you are a PVP tribe. Very sad indeed when you are clearly not.

Keep up your crafting, and your "training" or what you call PVP.
Maybe one day you will get the courage enough to fight the real PVPers. (Assuming any others come back to the game, now do to the carebears that have warped it)

[Jadzia]

Try to downplay all you like now, you have said it. With the current state of the game yes I say that training and practicing for when it's worth partaking in larger more grand battles is good enough for now.

You have brought no "data" or "truth" to this other than your own opinion which, yes I do disagree with, I don't understand why you can't admit you did indeed speak out of turn and apologize for it.

I think he can't, he would simply die, lol. I've never seen a person before who was so unable to admit if he was wrong. Not to mention apology

Till now DDT has told us how the game should work, how we should all accept his view of gameplay since everything else is clearly rubbish. Now he is willing to share more of his wisdom, and he tells us what's the definition of PvP, he defines if a tribe is a PvP one or not. I suggest everyone ask for a certificate from DDT if they are wishing to be a PvP tribe, just to be on the safe side.
/sarcasm off

Very funny thread, keep up the good work As long as DDT is unable to understand that currently no tribe can really PvP since there is no real enemy nor reason to do so, we will have a lot of fun. I think Xsyon Mercs will give a nice surprise to DDT when PvP will be fixed.